LBA Animation Movie

[bloodhound]

@Battler: You can relax about the wimpy Twinsen concept art, because they scrapped that one completely and as you see the new Twinsen looks completely different. By the way, how woke would they have to go for you to decide to boycott the game?

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by bloodhound

@Battler: You can relax about the wimpy Twinsen concept art, because they scrapped that one completely and as you see the new Twinsen looks completely different.

I wouldn't let go of that so fast; imho, it doesn't matter that they've changed their minds later and realised a lot of backlash from fans was very negative and so decided to change and drop this concept art completely; what does matter is that it was even made in the first place; and then, not bad enough of a thing for it to even exist, it was also used for quite some time officially out there before being removed; which for me is quite a taint in the integrity of the series for something that should have never seen the light of day.

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by Battler

That was the first thing that hinted me at the direction things were going. The next was the new cover art of the original LBA games, specifically the one of LBA 2. The original cover art had no problem showing Zoé as a badass even while still openly showing her being pregnant and in feminine clothes, but the new cover art has her in a mechanic's suit and her belly gone: .
Like, this is literally not how she looks like in LBA 2.

I'm with you here. Twinsen isn't exactly the "unlikely hero" you see in literature. He's the heir to a line of heroes. In LBA 1 from the beginning he's breaking out of prison and beating the shit out of elephants and robots. The fact that he's portrayed in this concept art as an effeminate weakling is indicative that there is some larger vision behind this re-imagining that wants to speak to contemporary Western tropes on gender roles.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Double-J

He's the heir to a line of heroes.

Crap. You're right. That one line alone makes you think. Good moment to bring this up.

[bloodhound]

@Double-J: While your observations are correct, he isn't the stereotypical superman either, as I've detailed in the first post of the "woke" thread. Maybe you can give your comments here?

Originally Posted by bloodhound

The concept art for the LBA reboot gets a bit of a bad rap for being "woke" (alert to injustice in society, in this case by reversing gender roles):
1. Twinsen isn't buff
2. Zoé is more buff than Twinsen
3. Zoé wields a wrench
4. Twinsen looks scared, whereas Zoé is composed.
So Zoé gets more of the typical male positive attributes (physical strength, mechanic skills, courage) here.

But let's face it. Except for point 2 the same is true for the original LBA2:
- Concerning point 1: When publishers asked Fred to make Twinsen more buff, he explicitly declined, saying that it doesn't fit his vision. He also declined fights scenes to be used for marketing, so the increased aggressiveness that you have with ANY male in the animal kingdom is also taboo.
- Concerning point 3: Zoé commandeers Twinsen around. In fact that's the very first line of the game. And then she fixes his car.
- Concerning point 4: If you just look at the cutscenes, then Twinsen gets scared all the time, I think we all remember his big open mouth and eyes. He looks scared after a rollercoaster ride and he gets seasick from the inter-island ferry. Batman sure didn't show any such "anti-heroic emotions" in much worse circumstances.

Would you agree that this makes LBA2 a woke game? Do you think it's better for it?

[SpaceGuitarist]

I hate superheroes and superheroes are an awful comparison. No need to run down this path and compare him with those stupid DC/Marvel superheroes. Leave Twinsen out of this.

Can we just take Twinsen as the unique friendly fellow he is? He is kind, he is nice, he is intelligent. Not muscular or violent at all, but when he needs to fulfil his destiny he is clever and agile enough for it, won't back down from a fight if well equipped and knows the way of the ancestral magic that runs on his blood.

He is the Heir.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Double-J

I'm with you here. Twinsen isn't exactly the "unlikely hero" you see in literature. He's the heir to a line of heroes.

While I see your point, he still greets everyone with "Uhh... Hello ?" at the beginning of the game, his confidence builds up over time.
Although yeah, they've changed him to fit more modern approaches of heroes in pop culture nowadays, and tried giving him a next-door guy kinda look (am I using this expression right ?)

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by bloodhound

@Double-J: While your observations are correct, he isn't the stereotypical superman either, as I've detailed in the first post of the "woke" thread. Maybe you can give your comments here?

I don't think he has to be a stereotypical superman, but he also never really portrays the timidity we see in that concept art. He's more of an "everyman" which I think is part of the appeal, he's the heir and has a museum dedicated to his exploits but also has to run to the pharmacy for medicine for his pet dragon and push boxes around a factory.

Originally Posted by Polaris

While I see your point, he still greets everyone with "Uhh... Hello ?" at the beginning of the game, his confidence builds up over time.
Although yeah, they've changed him to fit more modern approaches of heroes in pop culture nowadays, and tried giving him a next-door guy kinda look (am I using this expression right ?)

I think that's fair. He isn't the same at the beginning of the game as he is at the end, but I also don't think he's as wimpy as the concept art portrayed either.

I think you're using the expression right, he's just your average person. Though he has more personality than, say, Gordon Freeman, I also think Twinsen is innocuous enough that the player can feel personified through his actions in the same was a more traditionally silent protagonist.

[Polaris]

Oh no, even when being timid, he's a badass. Escapes from the asylum by beating the weaker guards to death with his bare fists, and didn't hesitate one second to do it