LBA2 was a "woke" game

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

Well, there is a clear problem with the quality of either your eyes or your monitor.

Guys !!!!

For our friend CiB here, this is the way he sees the world, for instance:



This is NOT a white man!

In fact, HALF of his face is actually black - and the other half is striped between black and orange !!! You think it's the light and shadows being cast? WRONG.

DISAGREE???

WELL... there is a clear problem with the quality of either your eyes or your monitor!

Obviously lighting does not exist in his world. THINGS ARE EXACTLY AS YOU SEE THEM! LITERALLY SO!

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

You talk about references, but didn't post any gameplay images. If you did, you'll see that the original gameplay makes Twinsen look paler than he does in all those pictures you posted. And actually, the remaster has gone for sort of that skin colour, and then made everything darker (look at Twinsens robe- even the bit that isn't under shadow is much darker than the original)

Nothing we've seen indicates a change to Twinsen's sexual orientation. I don't know what is making you think that.

You keep using the word "caucasian". How can he be caucasian? He's not actually human- him being caucasian would be like a cat being a labrador.

Honestly, I think you have issues that are based hugely on your politics and you're seeing everything through that prism. You should consider the old wisdom of not talking about politics or religion. There's plenty to dislike in the art style without going weird about it, and your points might come across as having had a modicum of thought about them if you stopped, calm down, and tried to express yourself in a more rational way. For one, anyone who tries to talk about "objectivity" in a post with block capitals, declaring "I'm angry" and massive text (and out of the blue asserting other people have no brain) is not thinking objectively, carefully, or at all.

Well the gameplay images are OBVIOUS, I don't need to post them!!!
This is the magicaball network for lba fans isn't it???

However, you've mentioned cutscenes and renders in your first post, allow me to quote:

Originally Posted by CiB

he does actually have darker skin in the CG artwork and in the FMV's than he does in game play.

So that's why I posted references of THAT, duh!


Either way, point is: it's either paler (as in really white as seen in game) or AT A MAX it is slightly tanned (as seen on renders), as per references above.


NOT. A. DARK. BROWN. NEVER WAS A DARK BROWN. EVER. CAPISCE.


Caucasian is a reference of skin colour to us humans on planet Earth - I am not saying he is literally a caucasian since that does not exist in his universe as you pointed - but that is also obvious - and I wonder how can you be so literal about everything. Talk about being slow.

As for how I express myself: I LIKE IT THIS WAY.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

Nothing we've seen indicates a change to Twinsen's sexual orientation. I don't know what is making you think that.

Well, not yet! But if we're going to DELIBERATELY change the skin colour of our hero from white to dark brown, then why not go for the complete "woke" package??

Why am I ranting like this non-stop you MBNers ask ????? cuz it pisses me off and makes me sick to see our beloved game being treated like this. Rebranded. Sold. Woke. Cheap decisions and milking the series using the fans love for the series. F* all this. I'm tired.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

If you look at the bit I quoted, yes I mentioned cutscenes and renders. But if you look at what you quoted, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in then breathe out again and now read to the end to the sentence... you'll see I also mentioned game play. Maybe your education wasn't terribly academic but normally if you're using references to compare two things you would provide examples of both for comparison sake.

Your right, the website does have game play images and thus maybe there is an argument for not needing those... but the website also has images of the cutscenes and renders so we wouldn't need those pics either.

You're just being comedically angry about imaginary enemies coming to destroy civilisation by using colour palettes in games that frankly aren't going to sell hundreds of millions of copies. They just made Twinsen look more like how he looks in the cutscenes then their bad art style makes every colour look darker than it did in the original (look at the robe- something which did have a consistent colour between renders/cutscenes and gameplay). There is no politics here, it's just 2.21 doing what they do best- taking a reasonable concept and then doing it badly.

Oh my. Do I really need to explain everything. I am sure most people here will remember the gameplay a lot better than they do remember those occasional renders or cutscenes, don't you agree?

Yes, maybe it's a pointless thing to be angry with! Who cares about what I think or who cares about this game in the end? These are all rhetorical questions we could go all day long with them - but the thing here is one of a very simple nature: I have my principles and my integrity, and what I see 2.21 doing is deliberately allowing personal political biases affect the game.

We've seen other instances where they made a weak-looking beta male wearing a skirt out of Twinsen and a strong and capable Zoe, back to back, even if that concept art will not be used it reveals what's behind their brains. The very fact such an art existed and they released that piece of utter crap under official means is already an offense to the integrity of the series. I am not happy with this woke agenda making its way into the LBA universe we cherish.

As for the darker blue tunic: yeah, right as if skin colour was something that us humans could casually change unaware of it That is really a silly comparison. Especially when all of the scenario has a very very keen awareness of its colour pallette. Even the other characters follow closely the skin colours of their original counterparts. But, just the main hero, the one everyone will focus on, has a dark brown skin ???? OH PLEASE.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

As I said, comedically angry.

YES!!! HAHAHA, comedically angry, yes, alright, but still, I'm right and you're wrong as it is plain to see.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

First: Guys, Battler (former Obrasilo) was born in Brazil and therefore a brazilian, even though he went to Europe very early on and grew there.

Oh really ? My bad, I did not now.

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

I don't mind if they change one rabbibunny from orange to brown, or some whoever grobo from blue to gray.

That's not at all what I was implying, this game is set in an imaginary world, weird for you to be preoccupied of skin colour for some reason.

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

But deliberately changing the skin colour of THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER OF THE WHOLE ENTIRE SERIES who happens to be a 'white hetero male' - the arch-enemy archetype of the progressive Left - is a shitty shady move, whatever reasons led them to that, and don't tell me this was a "mistake when picking the colour pallette" because it's clear nobody at 2.21 is colour blind.

Dude, the guy has a slightly darker skin tone, other things in the pics have new colours as well, why focus so much on the skin colour ? Look at Twinsen, does he fit the stereotypical image of a black skinned human ? Did he fit the stereotypical image of a white skinned human before ? No ? Than why the hell are you that fixated on it ?

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

As for cutscenes inconsistency blablabla: I've just watched ALL of them (they're on youtube, lookup) and it's OBVIOUS FOR ANYONE WITH A BRAIN WHO EVER SAW A 3D SOFTWARE IN USE that it has to do with the poor lighting/simulation of the 3D rendering at the time, the high contrast shades cast by the light vary A LOT, but the 3D model is just one, with a single clearly defined skin colour, and that is caucasian.

Round nose, oval head, black hair growing out of the middle of the head... yep, all the characteristics of a caucasian human

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

ANYONE can see that consistency in both games, during all gameplay, in every render made for advertising and magazines, etc. etc, etc, ETC., there's a gazillion references just look it up.

Oh, like this one, where as FreemanQC once put it, he's Mexican ?

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Saying that he was "a dark shade of brown just because he appeared so in one ferry scene" is ridiculous and you guys SUCK AT INVESTIGATING OR ANALYSING ANYTHING OBJECTIVELY.

This is just a strawman, as per usual coming from you. Or you didn't understand the previous posts, go and reread them.


Seriously, I've never understood why people get so fixated on skin colour. In the screenshot, his ponytail is now lightbrown, whereas it used to be dark-greenish. Is it a problem ? No. His shoes are no longer red. Is it a problem ? No. In the pictures of the remake, his eyes are now green.
(for real)

(gg for not noticing the reddish ponytail, or the clearer skinshade on this one btw)

Is it a problem (general art direction aside) ? Again no.

But lest the skin colour gets changed, omg, let's go apeshit about that

[bloodhound]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Round nose, oval head, black hair growing out of the middle of the head... yep, all the characteristics of a caucasian human

Also note Twinsen's protruding lips. SGK, he was always meant to be ethnic, it's just that the publishers forced Adeline to make him white for sales. And now the world is finally tolerant enough to accept his true skin color But jokes aside, please don't insult CiB or anyone else.

[Neko]

Pff just chill out. He does seem slightly darker but who cares

[elmuerte]

I'd suggest to wait for some real screenshots before concluding anything.
Maybe he has been spending way too much time on the beach in White Leaf Desert.

[Polaris]

Ooooh, would be cool if Twinsen stayed darker for a while after having been to Desert and Fortress Island.

[Reek]

this is a pretty retarded argument.


there isn't a single frame in the original games, whether in gameplay or in cutscenes, where twinsen has the skin tone he has in the studio 2.21 image sgk posted.


you can disagree on whether this was done for "woke" reasons or whatever, but you can't disagree they changed his skin tone. (personally i don't care that they did, i just don't see the point in denying it)



as for the theory that they did it for consistency between his FMV and gameplay appearance, is this based on anything? has anyone in studio 2.21 said anything to this effect?


btw, battler recently confessed on the discord that he made up the whole thing about being originally brazilian. he isn't and has never been brazilian

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Reek

this is a pretty retarded argument.


there isn't a single frame in the original games, whether in gameplay or in cutscenes, where twinsen has the skin tone he has in the studio 2.21 image sgk posted.


you can disagree on whether this was done for "woke" reasons or whatever, but you can't disagree they changed his skin tone. (personally i don't care that they did, i just don't see the point in denying it)



as for the theory that they did it for consistency between his FMV and gameplay appearance, is this based on anything? has anyone in studio 2.21 said anything to this effect?


btw, battler recently confessed on the discord that he made up the whole thing about being originally brazilian. he isn't and has never been brazilian

YES

EXACTLY

AT LAST, SOMEONE GETS IT

I am not going apeshit over the fact 2.21 made a whatever decision for the skin tone of our hero in their whatever remake I couldn't care less for; I am going apeshit over the fact that we MBNers can't even agree on a single thing, even when that thing is the very fact that Twinsen had always been presented to us as white.

It is shocking to see intelligent people using their intelligence to cast controversy and building castles of theorems using obscure facts over such a irrefutable statement that any 5 year old who had played the game but even once would've readily agreed upon.

It is really an appalling state of things when communication has degraded and our mbn consensus has gone that bad between us all, that we can't even agree on such a demented petty thing.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

So now they have changed Twinsen's skin colour:

[elmuerte]

I'm not going to dispute that Twinsen has been a "white" character in the games. Although it has been rather inconsistent how white he has appeared in the cinematics. It seems he's more "south France" in most of the higher resolution renders, sometimes even yellow?
But for now I'm going to put these new images more into the category of bad color grading or something. There are so many things wrong with these new images.
In the end, if they do decide to change Twinsen's skin color, then it is a really weird decision. Music is probably going to changed to dub step too.

[Polaris]

Okay, I might have overreacted.

That being said, every colour is different from the original games, and while in that one picture Twinsen seems to have a darker tone of skin, he's not at all typed like a black skinned human. He has green eyes ffs.

It is absurd to conclude to a political agenda and name scapegoat groups over a piece of concept art masquerading as an in-game screenshot, then insult members who disagree with you.

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

It is really an appalling state of things when communication has degraded and our mbn consensus has gone that bad between us all, that we can't even agree on such a demented petty thing.

Looking at the history of the drama in this forum, I'm not sure there ever was an MBN consensus

[Reek]

I don't support insulting members but tbh you were being a bit of a smartass when you said "what do you mean twinsen's white? he's not even a human hehe"

[bloodhound]

Originally Posted by Reek

I don't support insulting members but tbh you were being a bit of a smartass when you said "what do you mean twinsen's white? he's not even a human hehe"

I think it's a valid argument from Polaris. On Earth, skin color is a main attribute to say that someone is "different" and you see that SGK and Battler get really angry about the skin color getting changed, whereas they don't care about the eye color getting changed. But is what's "different" for humans, really all that different for Twinsunians? If the blue horse got a darker shade of blue, I don't think anybody would care.

[Neko]

bloodhound, Polly and CUvox have a way of arguing that can piss people off. I don't think you do it intentionally, but it's pretty annoying at times.

And SGK is being a **** when people don't agree with him.

Can you all argue normally like adults? I'm kinda done with this stuff.

[Reek]

Originally Posted by Neko

bloodhound, Polly and CUvox have a way of arguing that can piss people off. I don't think you do it intentionally, but it's pretty annoying at times.

yeah, indeed. the post above is a perfect example of that. instead of just admitting that twinsen's skin colour in the game corresponds to what we normally call "white", we get a philosophical discussion on race relations in twinsun. it really is quite annoying.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Reek

yeah, indeed. the post above is a perfect example of that. instead of just admitting that twinsen's skin colour in the game corresponds to what we normally call "white", we get a philosophical discussion on race relations in twinsun. it really is quite annoying.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by Neko

And SGK is being a **** when people don't agree with him.

Sorry, boss.

[Reek]

CiB, bloodhound and polly:


if you had said "yes sgk, they did change twinsen's skin colour in that image, but i disagree with your interpretation of why they did it", this whole argument could've been avoided and the conversation might've actually gotten somewhere.


instead, you chose to pretend like you don't understand what he's talking about, claimed his eyes don't work, came up with completely made up theories about why this is due to wanting consistency with FMVs, hypothesized that the twinsunisan conception of race isn't the same as ours, etc.


what i don't get is...why?

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Polaris

It is absurd to conclude to a political agenda and name scapegoat groups over a piece of concept art masquerading as an in-game screenshot

It is so not. Whoever did this art was intentional on the colour chosen. This doesn't happen 'by chance'. And it is not comparable to a shade of blue of his tunic, or the colour of his shoes. Namely, because noone has ever suffered discrimination about those things as much as people have because of skin colour, thus becoming extremely conscious of skin colour. Maybe you're a specialist in Twinsunian species, so you're not aware, but racism is a large scale issue that has been affecting humans on planet Earth for the last thousands of years, in the whole world. There's not a single country, not a single human being, who is unaware of it. Maybe just the small children are spared. That's the difference. More importantly, racial matters gained incredible momentum from 2020 onwards after certain riots took place, and Left-wing ideas rose to dominate most youngsters minds who felt generally unsatisfied with the state of things. Paulo and others who are part of the art direction, are quite within the profile and age groups to have been heavily influenced by these events, thus it is very likely that either consciously or subconsciously these ideas are being inferred into our lovely wonderful innocent childish game LBA. Not because of some evil mastermind plan to make kids love black people from Africa, but simply due to fleeting feelings they have of disatisfaction at seeing their main hero as a white, hetero male. Inner feelings tells them this is their chance to "fix" that and propose now a hero that is actually more like the skin colour of themselves and of their friends (like most brazilians who do have such a dark brown skin), as sort of a strike against the predominant whiteness that imperated during the gaming era of the past when racial consciousness was not so prevalent in the mainstream market. Nowadays, everybody wants to steer into the political correctness bandwagon because that increases their chances of success and acceptance, especially between the newer generation Z and onwards, who are the target groups who would play this remake. I am not a racist, and wouldn't mind if Twinsen had always been a dark-brown skinned character, but alas, he was not, he never was, and I find it wrong to change the original traits just in favour of the aforementioned psychological reasons of the audience's perceptions.

Clear enough, now ?

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Reek

CiB, bloodhound and polly:


if you had said "yes sgk, they did change twinsen's skin colour in that image, but i disagree with your interpretation of why they did it", this whole argument could've been avoided and the conversation might've actually gotten somewhere.


instead, you chose to pretend like you don't understand what he's talking about, claimed his eyes don't work, came up with completely made up theories about why this is due to wanting consistency with FMVs, hypothesized that the twinsunisan conception of race isn't the same as ours, etc.


what i don't get is...why?

Exactly!
Right??
I don't understand either.

*shrugs*

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

If you go back to my original comment that is precisely what I did say. In response SGK started calling people brainless.

Originally Posted by Reek

CiB, bloodhound and polly:


if you had said "yes sgk, they did change twinsen's skin colour in that image, but i disagree with your interpretation of why they did it", this whole argument could've been avoided and the conversation might've actually gotten somewhere.


instead, you chose to pretend like you don't understand what he's talking about, claimed his eyes don't work, came up with completely made up theories about why this is due to wanting consistency with FMVs, hypothesized that the twinsunisan conception of race isn't the same as ours, etc.


what i don't get is...why?

CiB, you're on my list of hopeless persons of the year. Congratulations! Because it's absolutely hopeless trying to nail the simplest ideas in your head.

[Neko]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

CiB, you're on my list of hopeless persons of the year. Congratulations! Because it's absolutely hopeless trying to nail the simplest ideas in your head.

Wow this is the first time in years I had to infract somebody.
I said stop, so now stop.