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  #1  
Old 2014-01-03, 16:49
Timse95's Avatar
Timse95 Timse95 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Finland
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Speedrunner needs help. Those freacking slot machines!

I have been trying to do a world record speedrun for couple of weeks now and the project is going great, but I have come to an stop.

When trying to get enough money for Celebration (The 100 Zlitos) Im trying to get the key from the slot machines, but it seems nearly impossible with the method that I use.

This is a segmented speedrun so all I have done in the casino is this:
-Came in
-Paid the reception
-Roll the first slot machine next to the front door and won 25 zlitoz
-Save

Now when I load the game I'm trying to get the key, but no matter how many times I try, it never drops. I have tried about 350-450 times now and nothing.

I read the forums a little and somebody said something about the key dropping more frequently when you have more money. Somehow it seems so. Every time I have more than 70 Zlitos the key drops almost instantly.

So the question is, does anybody ACTUALLY know how the slot machines work AND when the key drops?
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  #2  
Old 2014-01-03, 17:31
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Kobold Kobold is offline
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I never knew when the key drops exactly. I guess we could check with the new LBArchitect that can edit LBA 2 scenes?

In any case, I think you should sell your diploma and kashes at the souvenir shop, that gives you at least some money. (You can also sell the umbrella and ferry ticket, but if you're doing a speedrun, you probably don't have those.)
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  #3  
Old 2014-01-04, 12:38
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Zink Zink is offline
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I just looked into the scripts. They are rather complicated, so I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but this is what I have found:

1. The chance the key will appear in any single slot is 1/26, so for the key to appear on all three slots the chance is (1/26)^3 = 1/17576, but the key may be won only if these conditions are all met:
- the key has not been won yet,
- you have won something at least 2 times before,

2. However, the key will have 100% chance of appearing in all slots when these three conditions are all met:
- the key has not been won yet (obviously),
- you have played 20 times or more,
- you have won something at least 4 times before.

3. It seems that all slot machines share the same randomization values, so chance of winning each item is the same no matter what machine you play on.

4. Count of plays sums up for all slot machines, i.e. if you played 10 times on one slot machine and 5 times on another one, that counts for 15 total plays. Same for wins count. But the values are kept for the current session only, so if you exit and re-enter the Casino, the values will be reset.

So, Timse95, if you are trying to get the key from the first trial after loading the save, it won't work. You have to win something else at least 2 times, and only then you can win the key.

EDIT: Also here are chances of winning for other items:
- Clover leaf: 1/17576 - same as for the key, but no force win after 20 trials,
- 10 Magic: 1/81,
- 10 Life: 1/81,
- 25 Zlitos: 1/13.

Last edited by Zink; 2014-01-04 at 12:54. Reason: Fixed some numbers
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  #4  
Old 2014-01-04, 13:29
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Polaris Polaris is offline
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Wow, neat ! Your program is awesome man !
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  #5  
Old 2014-01-04, 13:55
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Courgette Courgette is offline
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What time would you like to achieve for that world record?
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  #6  
Old 2014-01-04, 14:48
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Timse95 Timse95 is offline
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Zink, just, thank you. You can't believe how grateful I am! You are my dear sir, like a savior. And now somebody can I even make a article or something from those stats for the site! Some admin maybe?

Cougette, I'm not that sure what the finishing time will be, but somewhere around hour. And I'm not even sure if I can break the world record, I just have to try. At the moment Kuky Bro is the fastest runner, so we just have to see.

So I have counted that you need exactly 136 Zlitos to finish the game.
I already have 20 Zlitos from Kashes that were left out so I still need 116 Zlitos.
So, that means either winning slots 5 times in a row (that makes 145) or winning 4 times in a row + Key that makes 220 Zlitos, witch is well, just waste AND it would be quicker to win 5th time from the slots. SO I don't even need the key.
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  #7  
Old 2014-01-04, 19:35
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Zink Zink is offline
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Winning 4 times in a row gives you the key, but only after playing at least 20 times, so that's a waste of time imho. The lowest number of times you have to play to get the key is 3: (first two must be winning), so if the first two plays would give you Zlitos and the third one would give you the key, that would make 147 Zlitos, and I think it would be faster, than winning Zlitos 5 times in a row. And that would be easier to achieve.
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  #8  
Old 2014-01-04, 19:55
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marcosmapf marcosmapf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zink View Post
1. The chance the key will appear in any single slot is 1/26, so for the key to appear on all three slots the chance is (1/26)^3 = 1/17576
Wait WAT

I always got the key through load/saving the game and I never had any problem with it! I always got it with less then 200 tries! That can't be the correct value, are you sure of it?
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  #9  
Old 2014-01-04, 23:07
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MrQuetch MrQuetch is offline
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This is interesting. Good job, Zink. I can't wait for your program to come out. I sure do look forward to it. It is a long wait, and will continue to be. Who knows, you look like you are on your way. Timse95, technically speaking, couldn't you just press, "escape" and type, "gold" for the zlitos? If you are not supposed to cheat, then I guess that is why you find other methods.
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  #10  
Old 2014-01-05, 00:07
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Timse95 Timse95 is offline
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Yeah MrQuetch, cheating is out of question I was wondering, how about the key in Rick's Cafe? Are the stats the same for that one?
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  #11  
Old 2014-01-05, 00:36
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Polaris Polaris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcosmapf View Post
Wait WAT

I always got the key through load/saving the game and I never had any problem with it! I always got it with less then 200 tries! That can't be the correct value, are you sure of it?
re-read this part :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zink View Post
2. However, the key will have 100% chance of appearing in all slots when these three conditions are all met:
- the key has not been won yet (obviously),
- you have played 20 times or more,
- you have won something at least 4 times before.
Winning zlitos is way easier than winning the key, once you win four times and play 20 times, you get the key.
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  #12  
Old 2014-01-05, 01:56
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marcosmapf marcosmapf is offline
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But the thing is, I always got the key with LESS THEN 20 TRIES, winning like 8 times in a row or things like that.
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  #13  
Old 2014-01-05, 10:49
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Renesans Renesans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQuetch View Post
This is interesting. Good job, Zink. I can't wait for your program to come out. (...)
Don't wait anymore.
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  #14  
Old 2014-01-05, 11:36
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Timse95 Timse95 is offline
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Yeah just what marcosmapf said, when I won the Zlitos 4 times a row and of course played 4 times (not 20), I got instant Key drop, and with 100% change, its strange, the key dropped from the slot every time, no matter what machine.

Last edited by Timse95; 2014-01-05 at 23:52.
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  #15  
Old 2014-01-05, 21:18
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Zink Zink is offline
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That's interesting. I will check it if I have some time.
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  #16  
Old 2014-01-11, 12:49
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Zink Zink is offline
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Oh, I know already. It's my silly mistake

The 100% chance of winning the key is forced if you have played 20 times OR won 4 times (only one condition must be fulfilled, not both). This should also explain what marcosmapf said.

The machines in the Bar have exactly the same chances of winning everything, except for the key force after 20 plays or 4 wins. I.e. the chance of winning the key is pure random here.

And I made a mistake with the chance numbers. The cance of appearing the key in each slot is 1/27 not 1/26, so all the chances I posted before are incorrect. The correct ones are:

- Key: (1/27)^3) = 1/19683
- Clover leaf: 1/19683
- 10 Magic: (6/27)^3 = 1/91
- 10 Life: (6/27)^3 = 1/91
- 25 Zlitos: (13/27)^3 = 1/9

Last edited by Zink; 2014-01-11 at 13:06.
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  #17  
Old 2014-01-12, 16:54
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Kitarii Kitarii is offline
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If you're speedrunning, I wouldn't bother going to the casino at all? Unless I'm forgetting something. Anyway, maybe this will help (just watch the first 1:30). I'm not sure if he's exploiting some bug or something there, but it seems quick enough.
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