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  #26  
Old 2013-07-09, 13:44
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Petition against this shit:


https://www.change.org/petitions/eu-...qfV_osyiFIoxAJ
(Basicly petition to stop the various public surveillance programs, and to protect whistle blowers who expose civil rights breaches)

Please sign
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  #27  
Old 2013-07-09, 16:07
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An english version would be nice...

Don't want to wake up one day to thugs knocking down my door, kicking the hell out of me and then taking away my kidneys while shouting "YOU AGREED TO THIS!".
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2013-07-09 at 21:16.
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  #28  
Old 2013-07-09, 17:16
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I don't like that we're all being spied on by NSA, etc., but I think online petitions are useless. I think we all need to go onto the streets and start massive demonstrations. It's a shame that now that the Arabs have woken up and gone to the point of civil war to overthrow tyrants, us European, the inventors of protest and demonstration, have reduced ourselves to online petitions at best and sitting and waiting for things to get better at worst.
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Last edited by Battler; 2013-07-09 at 17:23.
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  #29  
Old 2013-07-09, 17:42
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I think the lesson to be learned here is that everybody should be encrypting their communications. PGP and such have been around forever. Also, in these times of cheap virtual machines people should be less dependent on services like GMail.

However, nothing's going to change. Unfortunate.
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  #30  
Old 2013-07-09, 18:11
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i don't really care if someone is prying about my emails and stuff. I just want to know they are using it to keep an eye out for potentially dangerous people, rather than being peeping toms.
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  #31  
Old 2013-07-09, 18:22
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So you're saying that your emails contain something that can help governments catch dangerous people?

Maaaaan...
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  #32  
Old 2013-07-09, 18:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
So you're saying that your emails contain something that can help governments catch dangerous people?

Maaaaan...

No i am saying they can't just rule out one person's emails, so they have to search them all.
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  #33  
Old 2013-07-09, 19:33
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So would you happily hand over your email logins to hundreds of strangers? because thats exactly what your doing.
Your trusting each and every employ at the NSA, for one thing. EVERY employ in the building had access to EVERYONES email.
Thats going to be extremely tempting isn't it?
The UK conditions we don't know yet, neither the French. But the UK government has had plenty of data leaks in the past - I trust them a lot less security wise then Google.

Theres huge potential for crime here, insider trading, blackmail...you name it.

Meanwhile terrorists can just use code-words to bi-pass any word-search algorithms. Its not like a human is checking this stuff manually.

Quote:
En english version would be nice...
Honestly, my summery is about it.

An authentic dutchy checked it for me, but you can use google translate to double check yourself.

Quote:
Also, in these times of cheap virtual machines people should be less dependent on services like GMail.
Don't see how that would help.
No one wants to run their own server at home 24/7 (if we all did that the power wastage will be huge).
And while services like Amazon's are pretty cheap now - they are just as likely to have government spy-were as anywhere else.
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  #34  
Old 2013-07-09, 19:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
I don't like that we're all being spied on by NSA, etc., but I think online petitions are useless. I think we all need to go onto the streets and start massive demonstrations. It's a shame that now that the Arabs have woken up and gone to the point of civil war to overthrow tyrants, us European, the inventors of protest and demonstration, have reduced ourselves to online petitions at best and sitting and waiting for things to get better at worst.
Not quite - theres still plenty of physical protests done. Look at the Occupy movement.
Just this specific issue hasn't yet woken people up enough yet.

Online petitions aren't enough - but they do help. They let politicians know we care about this shit. (This one, like most at Charge.org is targeted to a relevant EU politician - they arnt just sent into the ether).
They also let other people know we care about this shit, and they should too.

You can also, of course, write directly to your areas representative.
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  #35  
Old 2013-07-09, 19:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
So would you happily hand over your email logins to hundreds of strangers? because thats exactly what your doing.
Your trusting each and every employ at the NSA, for one thing. EVERY employ in the building had access to EVERYONES email.
Thats going to be extremely tempting isn't it?
The UK conditions we don't know yet, neither the French. But the UK government has had plenty of data leaks in the past - I trust them a lot less security wise then Google.

Theres huge potential for crime here, insider trading, blackmail...you name it.

Meanwhile terrorists can just use code-words to bi-pass any word-search algorithms. Its not like a human is checking this stuff manually.



Honestly, my summery is about it.

An authentic dutchy checked it for me, but you can use google translate to double check yourself.



Don't see how that would help.
No one wants to run their own server at home 24/7 (if we all did that the power wastage will be huge).
And while services like Amazon's are pretty cheap now - they are just as likely to have government spy-were as anywhere else.
I believe it to be for the greater good and a small price to pay, as for the idea of them using codes to hide their tracks I am sure such things are taken into account
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  #36  
Old 2013-07-09, 20:22
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klokkenluiders
Uh god. Nothing dutch can sound dignified to German ears.
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  #37  
Old 2013-07-10, 00:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinsan
I believe it to be for the greater good and a small price to pay, as for the idea of them using codes to hide their tracks I am sure such things are taken into account
For what greater good exactly? And is there any independent source that confirms any good can come out of this?
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  #38  
Old 2013-07-10, 00:50
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"To protect our country and the whole world from terrorism"
I'm sure someone will come out with this soon enough.
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  #39  
Old 2013-07-10, 04:37
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Originally Posted by marcosmapf View Post
"To protect our country and the whole world from terrorism"
I'm sure someone will come out with this soon enough.
It actually has been said already, it's like an automatic message you get when you ask a republican, lol.

This can have a major impact on international relationships between the USA and latinamerican countries. If Snowden goes to Venezuela, it's gonna get bad, really bad.

I'll just wait and see what happens, here in Chile, our clown of a president is probably gonna support USA, I'm ashamed of Chile being another USA state.
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  #40  
Old 2013-07-10, 10:16
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Quote:
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For what greater good exactly? And is there any independent source that confirms any good can come out of this?
you can neither confirm nor deny, what they are doing is going to lead to a net positive effect. it's just my opinion they would not do this and risk a massive scandal (oops), with out enough reason. Lets be honest here, I think I am the only one here int he does not care, can see the point categories. Most of you seem to be against it, so ye, big risk, whats the reward? Selling information to big business is probably the most obvious, negative thing i can think of them doing at worst, but that in it's self is a mammoth gamble, whether thats an individual leakier or more. Why pay for something you can get off facebook XD, that site has enough personal information to cause a lot of problems as most pople i know, should really know when to shut their gob in facebook. then there is the likes, info on what you like your post date of births ect. all information to be extorted in some way is there if you let it be.
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  #41  
Old 2013-07-10, 12:35
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Did you ever read 1984, Twinsan?
Did you ever consider the possibility that the people "above" and their good reasons to do this might be good only for themselves?
Did you ever think that the state of (relative) democracy, freedom and tolerance you are enjoying now, is only guaranteed by a fragile balance of favorable conditions, and there is no warranty that this balance can't be broken in a near future?
Think of the economical context and the quickly approaching threat of a really big energy crisis, think of the all the remaining tensions between the various cultures/religions/ethnicities on this planet. In such context, any step towards more mass surveillance seems naturally alarming. But I don't want to sound pessimistic, I think it's also a great opportunity to react, reject the symbol, and propose ways to enforce democracy, instead of undermining it. Open sourcing government data, for instance, seems like a good response.
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  #42  
Old 2013-07-10, 12:58
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I would recommend the book "The Shadow Factory" if you want to get an idea how much of this large-scale spying and eavesdropping really is "for the greater good" and how much is just here to hide the incompentence of intelligence agencies before 9/11.
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  #43  
Old 2013-07-10, 13:22
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maybe stephenmildred's behind it all
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  #44  
Old 2013-07-10, 13:37
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maybe stephenmildred's behind it all
good thing I banned him then
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  #45  
Old 2013-07-10, 14:25
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  #46  
Old 2013-07-10, 17:24
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  #47  
Old 2013-07-10, 18:21
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  #48  
Old 2013-07-10, 18:49
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It actually has been said already, it's like an automatic message you get when you ask a republican, lol.

This can have a major impact on international relationships between the USA and latinamerican countries. If Snowden goes to Venezuela, it's gonna get bad, really bad.

I'll just wait and see what happens, here in Chile, our clown of a president is probably gonna support USA, I'm ashamed of Chile being another USA state.
I meant someone from the forums

And I'm not sure about what is going to happen, but the USA government needs some sever punishment for this. The whole world has been affected because they think they have the right to control everyone. This is just ridiculous.
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  #49  
Old 2013-07-10, 21:02
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Aside from ordinary folkd protesting, Buisness's should pull out of the UK and US - if you cant trust your data is private, that can effect your profits.
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  #50  
Old 2013-07-10, 22:51
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Aside from ordinary folkd protesting, Buisness's should pull out of the UK and US - if you cant trust your data is private, that can effect your profits.
wow wow wow, do you want there to be a giga uber tuber super dooper, recession?
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