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  #26  
Old 2008-07-21, 22:21
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Are you referring to my post? How does that sound like communism?
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  #27  
Old 2008-07-21, 23:15
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The equal distribution of "miserability".
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  #28  
Old 2008-07-21, 23:50
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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You misunderstood, I don't see lack of privacy as miserability. Besides, communism didn't live up to its promise because the people in power were above the law. (not that I would support communism otherwise)

What I talk about is everyone having an access to every move / every thought of any other person... by some technology that would not be avoidable to anyone. And this is very different from "big brother", maybe even the opposite.
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  #29  
Old 2008-07-21, 23:59
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I think that would result in chaos.

Soooo, Steam...
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  #30  
Old 2008-07-22, 00:18
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Chaos is not necessarily bad.
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  #31  
Old 2008-07-22, 02:16
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Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Waht?
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  #32  
Old 2008-07-23, 14:35
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I think that when it comes down to it, some people prefer complete privacy, but others like to feel a "sense of security" from everyone knowing about them. However, due to some Governments, they'll just use it against you, so nothing (or very little) good could ultimately come out of it in that matter.

The problem comes when the Government will try to induce 'safety' measures by monitoring everyone, thereby taking away some, or even a lot of freedom. They will then try to ensure at least some of those who run 'illegal' sites are arrested, and likely jailed as an example to others. When this happens (I don't think perfect democracy will ever occour, so it will happen eventually), some will rebel, and some more will realise thanks to public infomation venues (newspapers, internet, news etc.) how broken the system has become towards average citizens.

On the plus side, we'll probably all be dead before that happens, and everyone will be utterly fucked because of some over-reactions and quite possible global warming (which I still think is being over-reacted about).

Basically, I will get games for Steam, but only games that are only for Steam. For everything else I will get a standard retail, box-and-manual version.

And I somehow doubt that unless laws get involved, or Microsoft go and introduce spyware into their next OS (cough*Vista*cough), then the games will remain the way they are and we won't be monitored significantly.

Quote:
What I talk about is everyone having an access to every move / every thought of any other person... by some technology that would not be avoidable to anyone. And this is very different from "big brother", maybe even the opposite.
Doesn't that kind of remove any sense of free rights? This means that virtually anyone can find out EVERYTHING about your existance, including thoughts. For example, if I thought, "I hate him so much... I wonder if that crowbar over there would give him brain damage, or just outright kill him...", how would the Government look towards that?

It's essentially Big Brother + Mind Reading Abilities + Public Overviews. That's not good at all.

My God, it'd be just like the Matrix, just minus the "real world" bit. Some people would escape the system and rebel, as a perfect system is impossible.
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Last edited by Torch; 2008-07-23 at 14:42.
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  #33  
Old 2008-07-23, 15:41
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My God, it'd be just like the Matrix, just minus the "real world" bit. Some people would escape the system and rebel, as a perfect system is impossible.
Or, for like the 20th time, 1984 which apparently CF has never read. :P
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  #34  
Old 2008-07-23, 17:37
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Quote:
Doesn't that kind of remove any sense of free rights? This means that virtually anyone can find out EVERYTHING about your existance, including thoughts. For example, if I thought, "I hate him so much... I wonder if that crowbar over there would give him brain damage, or just outright kill him...", how would the Government look towards that?
The wonderfull thing is, under that system you would also know anyone who murdered anyone. Or thought about it.
Now before you say "ahh, but lots of people think about doing stuff", thats also the point.
The fact that everyone has thoughts,feelings and actions that (currently) we would be a bit ashamed off, would precisely mean no one would be that keen to overly critise others for theirs.

Quote:
It's essentially Big Brother + Mind Reading Abilities + Public Overviews. That's not good at all.
No, Big Brother is centralised. One watching All.
This is everyone <> everyone. Youd be able to read the minds of the govement just as much as they can to you. Thats if govement was even needed. I dont think it would be a utopia, but I think the whole of soceity would be so mind-blowingly different under this system its hard for us to imagination now.

But overall;
Being watched is ok, as long as you can watch the watchers back.

In a typical govement set up, this is not the case.
Or at least, not much.
Free press certainly helps a hell of a lot, but isnt nearly enough.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2008-07-23 at 17:45.
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  #35  
Old 2008-07-23, 19:18
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
The wonderfull thing is, under that system you would also know anyone who murdered anyone. Or thought about it.
Now before you say "ahh, but lots of people think about doing stuff", thats also the point.
The fact that everyone has thoughts,feelings and actions that (currently) we would be a bit ashamed off, would precisely mean no one would be that keen to overly critise others for theirs.
Exactly.
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  #36  
Old 2008-07-25, 22:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Being watched is ok, as long as you can watch the watchers back.

In a typical govement set up, this is not the case.
Or at least, not much.
Free press certainly helps a hell of a lot, but isnt nearly enough.
True. I, however, was under the impression that the Government would not want this to happen, because if a Government official had a dangerous thought, such as someone very high up (Minister of the MoD for example). Then, another country that this could affect would react, and it could all spiral out of control.

However, trust everyone with completely equal rights and someone will end up abusing it.

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The fact that everyone has thoughts,feelings and actions that (currently) we would be a bit ashamed off, would precisely mean no one would be that keen to overly critise others for theirs.
Really? Most of the people I've met must be total assholes then.
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  #37  
Old 2008-07-25, 22:37
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Torch, the Secret Impossible™ theoretical system (yes, that's its official name, starting ...now!) doesn't require everyone to be to be "good" (whatever that'd mean), and it also doesn't make everyone equal. Actually it might even have disadvantages, and it probably isn't a recipe for utopia.

But it's better than any other system.
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Really? Most of the people I've met must be total assholes then.
Oh come on, you never think devilish thoughts? If you truly don't, then you really need to start, it's awesome.
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  #38  
Old 2008-07-26, 00:22
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Or, for like the 20th time, 1984 which apparently CF has never read. :P
Sweden is starting to look more and more like that book since the FRA-law..
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  #39  
Old 2008-07-26, 01:12
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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A while back (couple of months ago), Raanana (Israeli city) had poles with speakers on them all over the streets. It was even the 'megaphone-style' speakers, just like in 1984. Creepy. There was a DJ who decided what music the people who walk the streets should listen to.

If they hadn't taken it down, I'd take it down myself. I'm not sure if it makes it better or worse - but from my understanding there weren't even any ill intentions behind that thing, it was just common stupidity.
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  #40  
Old 2008-07-26, 12:45
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Quote:
but from my understanding there weren't even any ill intentions behind that thing, it was just common stupidity.
Which is were most of the worlds ill's come from.
A lot in govement actualy think they are doing the right thing.

I never believed the 1984 scenaro anyway, because in the real (western) world the people making the rules have to live in the same world as the rules are applied.
If govement officials ever started getting official special-treatment, then is the time to start worrying.
I think its more a case that we potentialy we reach a point somewhere approaching 1984, but never so close as the people in power start feeling unplesent about the world them and their family live in.

Quote:
Really? Most of the people I've met must be total assholes then.
Only because they know that you dont know X or Y about them.
At the moment, many people can know stuff about you, without you nesscerly knowing something about them.
So people are a lot more free to be arseholes.


Also, I think people with random hatefull thoughts would be less likely to get into power, and other govements would clearly see they dont speak for everyone even if they did.
I'm sure their would be other problems though.
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  #41  
Old 2008-07-28, 15:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Torch, the Secret Impossible™ theoretical system (yes, that's its official name, starting ...now!) doesn't require everyone to be to be "good" (whatever that'd mean), and it also doesn't make everyone equal. Actually it might even have disadvantages, and it probably isn't a recipe for utopia.

But it's better than any other system.
I see...

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Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Oh come on, you never think devilish thoughts? If you truly don't, then you really need to start, it's awesome.
I do, and believe me, some of my friends are scared of me now because of me saying them aloud randomly. It's just that some people don't care if you try to insult them, they just want to use an opportunity to make you feel bad. Not that it works, at least.

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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Only because they know that you dont know X or Y about them.
At the moment, many people can know stuff about you, without you nesscerly knowing something about them.
So people are a lot more free to be arseholes.
This kid was irritating me, so when I found out he was gay (not good to be revealed in schools, in case you didn't know), I mocked him so much he went off school for about three weeks. So yes, you're probably right.

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Also, I think people with random hatefull thoughts would be less likely to get into power, and other govements would clearly see they dont speak for everyone even if they did.
I'm sure their would be other problems though.
Less likely is the key statement there, but there's really nothing that can be done about it.

Oh, and is this '1984' thing a book? If so, I think it'd be a good read...

Someone should forward this onto Valve, and see what they think Steam is inspiring!
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