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  #1  
Old 2013-06-30, 23:43
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marcosmapf marcosmapf is offline
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Cell Phone risk discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_LIPSTICK View Post
for example, i couldn't imagine taking a city break without my smartphone. for starters, i'd need to plan my days out carefully and plan the exact routes. i'd have to buy a buy a map for this, and spend a few hours working it out. if anything went wrong, an attraction was closed for example, there would be no room for an impromptu change of plans without sitting down and working it out on the map.

if it's a non-english speaking country i'd also probably have to buy a phrase book which are usually incredibly overpriced and not really accurate for the things you want to say. if i need to ask a specific question i can look up the phrasing online, which costs me nothing if i'm on wifi.

navigating with maps is a skill and pretty much anyone can make a wrong turn or mistake. if i get lost i can turn on the gps on google maps and find out exactly where i am.

with the tripadvisor app i can find reviews of other attractions or restaurants in the area. sounds frivolous but if you're in a touristy area you're most likely to end up at an overpriced tourist trap if you're not careful. because of this app i have sound some of the best and affordable restaurants not just abroad but in my hometown as well.

finally, having access to most train, bus and tram schedules in the world at the tap of a screen is pretty damn convenient.
This

We can't know everything that will be happening in the future, so we can't plan everything ahead. What if my car breaks? What if I'm out of gas? What if someone suffers an accident and I need to find the nearest hospital quickly? What if someone tells me to go somewhere and I have no idea how to?

All those things can be easily solved by my smartphone, and I don't think its rude or lazy or anything like that to use it for those purposes. Technology can be prejudicial? Yes. But only if you abuse of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Oh and also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QouPm-i8pIs (If you're lazy just skip to the middle, it's okay). Although my phone also does emmit the same harmful electromagnetic waves, I do keep it distant from my body as possible and turn off at most times when possible.
The video has been delete. But I think I know what you are talking about, because it has been discussed somewhere in the forums already, so its ok
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  #2  
Old 2013-07-01, 00:44
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arg..not exactly.
We cant state cellphones are totally safe - but we can state its the heating over a very very long time were a theoretical risk lies, and if that risk exists its statistical about level of coffee.

Electromagnetic are everywhere. They are also there regardless of if your making calls or not - cell towers need constant comms with your phone to work.
(remember, if on the run from the law - take the battery out! :P)

Fortunately they are also harmless. The wavelength just cant do anything to cells. Theres been loads of independent studies. Theres basically no "harmfall magnetic waves" possible. It isn't remotely near the frequency of, say, x-rays - which of course can harm you in enough quantities.

At least not directly.That said the batteries of cell phones can also give of heat and there is some theoretical effects from long term exposure to this heat. Likewise the ariel can heat like a very very very weak microwave oven. Also, somewhat ironically, some hands free devices make it marginally more dangerous by increasing the heat to an smaller area.

--

oh, lastly - if you see anything about cooking stuff with cellphones on youtube its faked. Even with dozens of them pilled up there just isn't enough energy. I dont know what the vid was, but just be carefull. People love faking this stuff.

Theres been a few mythbusters on cellphone stuff if you google anyway.

One cellphone thing thats kinda true is there is evidence they can interfere with some airplanes equipment. - unfortunately thats the one everyone thinks isn't true
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  #3  
Old 2013-07-01, 19:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
arg..not exactly.
We cant state cellphones are totally safe - but we can state its the heating over a very very long time were a theoretical risk lies, and if that risk exists its statistical about level of coffee.

Electromagnetic are everywhere. They are also there regardless of if your making calls or not - cell towers need constant comms with your phone to work.
(remember, if on the run from the law - take the battery out! :P)

Fortunately they are also harmless. The wavelength just cant do anything to cells. Theres been loads of independent studies. Theres basically no "harmfall magnetic waves" possible. It isn't remotely near the frequency of, say, x-rays - which of course can harm you in enough quantities.

At least not directly.That said the batteries of cell phones can also give of heat and there is some theoretical effects from long term exposure to this heat. Likewise the ariel can heat like a very very very weak microwave oven. Also, somewhat ironically, some hands free devices make it marginally more dangerous by increasing the heat to an smaller area.

--

oh, lastly - if you see anything about cooking stuff with cellphones on youtube its faked. Even with dozens of them pilled up there just isn't enough energy. I dont know what the vid was, but just be carefull. People love faking this stuff.

Theres been a few mythbusters on cellphone stuff if you google anyway.

One cellphone thing thats kinda true is there is evidence they can interfere with some airplanes equipment. - unfortunately thats the one everyone thinks isn't true
yes. electromagnetic ARE everywhere indeed. but that doesn't mean they're not harmful. they're all over the place; destroying brain cells and the ability to utilise basic grammar taught in primary school. it's about time someone did a whistle-blowing post on this subject, and it doesn't surprise me that it was sgk that took this task upon himself. his argument is a strong one and definitely not something tacked onto the end of a stubborn anti-smartphones argument that he was losing completely.

so how are they harmful?

that's a good question, mike. one which i am about to answer with as many words as physically possible. you see, the more words you use when you construct an argument, the smarter and more right you are. using a thesaurus is a must as everyone knows that makes you really smart and good with words and talking and that (see: this post). like me.

back to the question at hand. why are they harmful? well, that's obvious. they are harmful because i saw this video on the internet about how they are harmful. this video contained conclusive scientific evidence about the fact that they are very dangerous and bad.

-----
fig. 1

this is literally what happens every time you use your phone.
-----

as you can see, all the evidence is here to suggest, no, conclusively prove that cell phones cause cancer. and aids. and that father christmas is real. i know because my mum sent me this e-mail and obviously she gave birth to me so she obviously wouldn't lie and she makes a mean lasagna. i love my mum and i don't know what you're doing saying she's going round lying maybe you need to fucking close your mouth you little shi-

-----
fig. 2


does this look safe to you? no.
-----

so how is it that this hasn't been discovered until now? i mean, surely this would be all over the news, products would be recalled due to fear of public safety and people would be thoroughly educated on the matter? well, this goes far deeper that. i watched this movie zeitgeist once and it was about how we're being controlled by airplane emissions and the mayans or something, i don't know i was like, really high at the time, but anyway it's all completely true.

-----
fig. 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7DKQx5SCw

this man has been subjected to large quantities of electromagnetic. and lemo.
-----

in conclusion, i'm sure you will agree 100% that i have far too much time on my hands and have probably had too much sugar* today.


*Spoiler:
lemo
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  #4  
Old 2013-07-01, 21:41
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Erm... Phones ARE dangerous. I don't understand why making such an ironic post. We can't state that they're totally safe. If you read any cellphone manual it will tell you to keep it at a few centimeters distance from your ear when you're talking... but you can't really hear anything that way, right? Everybody should follow a few basic precautions, like using earphones, keeping it distant from vital body parts etc. Also, phoning while in a car creates the same effect of a microwave oven.
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Old 2013-07-01, 21:45
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If you're ever been outraged over telephone pole in your neighborhood, (and believe me, out here, the locals were) you should know that the waves from the device you've got in your hand are more dangerous than anything a pole a few yards away would ever be able to. There's a lot of hypocrisy going around phone radiation.
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  #6  
Old 2013-07-01, 23:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_LIPSTICK View Post
yes. electromagnetic ARE everywhere indeed. but that doesn't mean they're not harmful. they're all over the place; destroying brain cells and the ability to utilise basic grammar taught in primary school. it's about time someone did a whistle-blowing post on this subject, and it doesn't surprise me that it was sgk that took this task upon himself. his argument is a strong one and definitely not something tacked onto the end of a stubborn anti-smartphones argument that he was losing completely.

so how are they harmful?

that's a good question, mike. one which i am about to answer with as many words as physically possible. you see, the more words you use when you construct an argument, the smarter and more right you are. using a thesaurus is a must as everyone knows that makes you really smart and good with words and talking and that (see: this post). like me.

back to the question at hand. why are they harmful? well, that's obvious. they are harmful because i saw this video on the internet about how they are harmful. this video contained conclusive scientific evidence about the fact that they are very dangerous and bad.

-----
fig. 1

this is literally what happens every time you use your phone.
-----

as you can see, all the evidence is here to suggest, no, conclusively prove that cell phones cause cancer. and aids. and that father christmas is real. i know because my mum sent me this e-mail and obviously she gave birth to me so she obviously wouldn't lie and she makes a mean lasagna. i love my mum and i don't know what you're doing saying she's going round lying maybe you need to fucking close your mouth you little shi-

-----
fig. 2


does this look safe to you? no.
-----

so how is it that this hasn't been discovered until now? i mean, surely this would be all over the news, products would be recalled due to fear of public safety and people would be thoroughly educated on the matter? well, this goes far deeper that. i watched this movie zeitgeist once and it was about how we're being controlled by airplane emissions and the mayans or something, i don't know i was like, really high at the time, but anyway it's all completely true.

-----
fig. 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7DKQx5SCw

this man has been subjected to large quantities of electromagnetic. and lemo.
-----

in conclusion, i'm sure you will agree 100% that i have far too much time on my hands and have probably had too much sugar* today.


*Spoiler:
lemo

Too
Much
Irony
*explodes*

Now seriously, why did you take 1 hour to create a post with so much irony? It is funny, indeed, but I don't think it serves the purpose of this discussion
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  #7  
Old 2013-07-01, 23:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
You should join a debate club.
best post so far.

Quote:
source
A recent study showed that when people used a cell phone for 50 minutes, brain tissues on the same side of the head as the phone’s antenna metabolized more glucose than did tissues on the opposite side of the brain (2). The researchers noted that the results are preliminary, and possible health outcomes from this increase in glucose metabolism are still unknown.
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Old 2013-07-02, 00:15
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Originally Posted by Streg View Post
best post so far.

Quote:
source
A recent study showed that when people used a cell phone for 50 minutes, brain tissues on the same side of the head as the phone’s antenna metabolized more glucose than did tissues on the opposite side of the brain (2). The researchers noted that the results are preliminary, and possible health outcomes from this increase in glucose metabolism are still unknown.


Seriously? A few cells ate a little more glucose while you where talking with someone on the damned phone for almost an hour? I'd be surprised if they didn't, since it's THE BRAIN THAT'S DOING THE TALKING WITH SOMEONE ON THE PHONE FOR AN HOUR...

You do realize that how science works is to give best possible estimates based on the available data and no true scientist will ever tell you something is 100% certain to be true or false because that's not how they work? This makes this whole "we don't know if it's safe yet" debate a ludicrous idiocy whenever it pops up.

There's a good chance that their worst estimate of the safety of mobile phones is less then the chance of you getting gunned down by a mob of angry cows enrolled on a whim by a disgruntled mossad agen't who's about to get fired.

A special commission in the WHO found out there's no increase in brain cancers since the introduction of cell phones. That's it. Done deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_LIPSTICK View Post
in other news, burnt toast gives you cancer.
I've been told drinking tea with lemon juice is a factor in alzheimers.

In other news, don't forget how the biggest source of cancers is cells reproducing. Being alive literally gives you cancer.
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Old 2013-07-02, 00:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streg View Post
You are free to believe whatever you want, but if an international team of scients classified mobile phones as possible carcinogen. Possibility means "we don't know" (or more likely, we can't tell you that), so I'd obey to a few safety rule. If a possibility exist, I'd rather get some little safer habit. Is it such a nuisance to use earphones? You still get some radiation, but in a ridicolous amount, if compared to using the phone directly


We're talking abount ONE side of the brain, the one where the mobile phone is.
They're scientists. Do you think they didn't check the status of someone that's been talking (without a phone) for an hour first, before stating something like that? Besides, the same tests done to people using earphones gives different results.
can you provide a source for your statement, i want to check the validity of it.
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Old 2013-07-02, 00:54
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http://www.millionwomenstudy.org/introduction/

A study on 750 000 women found no link between brain cancer and cell phones - or any other decrease in health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17148772

A study on 450 000 people found no link between brain cancer and cell phones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17230523

A study on 5 000 people - no link either. "No significant association was found across categories with duration of use, years since first use, cumulative number of calls or cumulative hours of use"
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Old 2013-07-02, 00:56
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@Twinsan
What statement? I assume the one about earphones?
The whole report was here, but now it has been removed.
still, I found some pages that made a summery of this study,
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1142111
and here
http://telecom.hellodirect.com/docs/...s.1.110200.asp

also, in this video you can clearly read the amount of transmitted radiation, and the difference between using an headset, or talking directly to the phone. Sorry if I couldn't find anything in english, but that's the only one I knew.
http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/i...-e-tumori.html

Next time try to use google by yourself, will ya?

@Jasiek - those numbers only mean that mobile phones don't cause all brain cancers of this world.

But seriously, this whole argument is useless. Why not just taking a few precautions? I don't get you guys.
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Old 2013-07-02, 01:01
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Quote:
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@Jasiek - those numbers only mean that mobile phones don't cause all brain cancers of this world.
uh, no, that's not what those numbers mean. they mean that none of the brain cancers of the world are caused by mobile phones.
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Old 2013-07-02, 01:05
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But seriously, this whole argument is useless. Why not just taking a few precautions? I don't get you guys.
Because there is no need to take precautions if there is nothing to worry. I don't belive cellphones can cause cancer either, or else half of the world would have cancer already. Specially those stupid teenagers.
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Old 2013-07-02, 01:13
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Thanks for all your replies Jasiek, Darkflame, Lipstick, Reek and Kobold, I've very much enjoyed reading your posts. With the exception of Twinsan's poor posts, I'd say that my points of view have actually launched a fairly interesting, intelligent (and funny!) discussion, without any flames or 'tardness, and I'm happy for that.


Kobold, I've read every paragraph of that "comic". Intriguing, no less!
However my conclusion from that, unlike what Reek thinks, is that people back then have noticed the warning signs. Because now, we have come to a time where, not only all that was mentioned is true and supposed to be taken as normal, but in some cases the problems mentioned have increased beyond imaginable for what they'd have considered terrible back then! So, in short, what I mean to say is that with every progress there IS a loss from good things that existed in the past - I'm not saying now is not better than the past, rather, that we must atleast acknowledge the losses and benefits of our progress and be careful if the losses do not outweight the benefits. Yes, maybe living in 1705 with plenty of free time and no telegraph would be great as opposed to the rush of 1880. I don't know. But progress isn't directly related with a better quality of life, that is for sure. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. Gotta watch out for the side-effects...


A_LIPSTICK, reading your "informative" post was one of the most hilarious things I have read in these forums for quite some time...

However I still do believe the problem is a real one and if anyone wants more info on how phones are harmful google for the video I posted which is called " Resonance: Beings of Frequency ". Seemed legit to me.
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Old 2013-07-02, 01:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcosmapf View Post
Because there is no need to take precautions if there is nothing to worry. I don't belive cellphones can cause cancer either, or else half of the world would have cancer already. Specially those stupid teenagers.
Those studies talk about an intensive long term use of mobile phones, everyday for 10 years. I don't think the whole world population does that.

Seriously, if many scientists assert that a risk might exist (majority), some state that it does exist (google Lennart Hardell for exemple), and other affirm that there is no risk at all - Even researchers don't have any solid point, how can you be so sure of yourself? I'm expressing my doubt, and just in case, I'm taking some precautions. What I know is that radiation are dangerous, and if I can avoid getting some with basically no effort, why shouldn't I?
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Old 2013-07-02, 01:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streg View Post
Those studies talk about an intensive long term use of mobile phones, everyday for 10 years. I don't think the whole world population does that.

Seriously, if many scientists assert that a risk might exist (majority), some state that it does exist (google Lennart Hardell for exemple), and other affirm that there is no risk at all - Even researchers don't have any solid point, how can you be so sure of yourself? I'm expressing my doubt, and just in case, I'm taking some precautions. What I know is that radiation are dangerous, and if I can avoid getting some with basically no effort, why shouldn't I?

I can agree with you that if you can take precautions, then you should. But Not using smartphones at all, or just using at your home (you don't want to walk with it on your pocket, remember?) is almost no effort? Did you realy say that?

And yes, those stupid teenagers do that. I was one myself a few years ago (Although I hardly used my smartphone, I just know how other teens act like)

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what I mean to say is that with every progress there IS a loss from good things that existed in the past - I'm not saying now is not better than the past, rather, that we must atleast acknowledge the losses and benefits of our progress and be careful if the losses do not outweight the benefits.
That's something realy smart in there. It is indeed impossible to to progress without losing a lot of other things. And I have to agree that sometimes I wish things weren't like they are these days; like, I realy enjoy the open field and nature, but you can hardly find things like that around where you live these days because of the overpopulation and industries and etc...
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Old 2013-07-02, 01:49
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I use my phone with headphones mainly cause I can't hear the ring in the tram, and to listen to music.

And using headphones increases the amount of bacteria in the ear 300%... had an ear infection due to a tiny little scratch twice now.

So, yeah...
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Old 2013-07-02, 02:05
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Maybe you should baths more often and also clean your earphone after using it all day? rofl.

Seriously, my earphone is one of those in-ear, which you can take the rubber piece out. I constantly wash it.

If you sweat a lot, does not have the habit of cleaning the earphone piece (preferable with alcohol + dry cloth), and then end up hurting yourself in that area and still do not cease to use it, heck, I'd expect better prevention measures for a mars-colonizer-wannabe like you!
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Old 2013-07-02, 13:50
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Originally Posted by Streg View Post
Those studies talk about an intensive long term use of mobile phones, everyday for 10 years. I don't think the whole world population does that.

Seriously, if many scientists assert that a risk might exist (majority), some state that it does exist (google Lennart Hardell for exemple), and other affirm that there is no risk at all - Even researchers don't have any solid point, how can you be so sure of yourself? I'm expressing my doubt, and just in case, I'm taking some precautions. What I know is that radiation are dangerous, and if I can avoid getting some with basically no effort, why shouldn't I?
The point is, we don't know that for sure. Radiation is an ugly word for most people because we associate it with nuclear radiation, mutations, nuclear power plants and so on, but there's a huuuuuuuge difference between non-ionizing radiation (the one produced by antennas, radios, cellphones, wifi...) and ionizing radiation (which are produced by radioactive decay) because non-ionizing radiation don't have sufficient energy to break DNA helixes, all it can do is heat up matter (like microwave ovens do) while ionizing radiation definitely does.

The main debate is whether or not the heat can indirectly damage organs other than the ones naturally sensitive to heat (such as testicles and eyes, which is why it's wise to keep your cellphone distant from your manly bits :P)
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Old 2013-07-02, 15:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reek View Post
i didn't see any intelligent conversation anywhere.
i saw you posting one desperate argument after another, and other people explaining to you what is obvious to everyone else on the planet.

btw, about the alienation thing, have you heard of freudian projection?
in your case it would mean that because of the alienation you yourself feel, you see alienation everywhere you look.
<3

You know we could list a whole lot of things, that are definitively more dangerous than microwave radiation from a phone.

I'll go for a few examples to get the ball rolling

Smoking -obvious
Loud music -lasting damage to the hair's of cochlea
Sex -unprotected or protected, love to hear the crazy answers to have PS is more dangerous, if not i'll answer.
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  #21  
Old 2013-07-02, 16:38
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Maybe you should baths more often and also clean your earphone after using it all day? rofl.

Seriously, my earphone is one of those in-ear, which you can take the rubber piece out. I constantly wash it.

If you sweat a lot, does not have the habit of cleaning the earphone piece (preferable with alcohol + dry cloth), and then end up hurting yourself in that area and still do not cease to use it, heck, I'd expect better prevention measures for a mars-colonizer-wannabe like you!
Rude...

Both times I went to the doctor he actually said I should stop cleaning my ears so often. As it apparently results in microscopic scratches that you get bacteria in with headphones (also the in-ear ones). You do realise we could pointlessly argue about the practicality of running around with alcohol and a cotton swab and obsessively cleaning your ear-phones every other five minuites? Once every day or two wasn't enough, obviously.

This isn't to say you shouldn't use them, obviously, just that everything causes some sort of influence on you. Obsessing over things that where proven to a reasonable degree to not kill you on the spot or in the forseeable future is un-practical at the least...
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  #22  
Old 2013-07-02, 17:04
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Not going as far as obsession, I think it's reasonable to have some concerns.
Negative influence, even small, multiplied by all the individuals who are exposed, and multiplied by time, could have a global impact on humanity. It seems legitimate to question that impact.
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  #23  
Old 2013-07-02, 17:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
Negative influence, even small, multiplied by all the individuals who are exposed, and multiplied by time, could have a global impact on humanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek
Obsessing over things that where proven to a reasonable degree to not kill you on the spot or in the forseeable future is un-practical at the least...
Is my response.
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  #24  
Old 2013-07-02, 17:23
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So basically, we should just leave it to luck (or some god for the religious people out there) to decide the future of our species, without even trying to plan things ahead a bit?
I don't disagree with your pragmatic approach to progress. I'm just saying it's not incompatible with a debate/questioning that encompasses the negative aspects of such progress.
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  #25  
Old 2013-07-02, 19:45
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http://www.secrets-of-universe.com/

Is the source of that video?

Yeah, legit...xD

Now off to watch the video
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