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  #26  
Old 2013-07-23, 11:49
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It's both a matter of definition and a matter of necessity to (dis)believe something.
Some people don't need or don't even want to believe anything beyond death, or define it as irrelevant, or something like that.

I wouldn't want to restrict myself to such a narrow mind, but I do admit to the question "Is it relevant to know or discuss?"
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  #27  
Old 2013-07-23, 15:35
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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I don't understand, how can you be so sure?
"After" = in a time beyond. Your life takes place during a certain section of time (from time of birth to time of death); it doesn't exist beyond that section of time. If you're born in 1938 and die in 2006, you can argue that even "now" you're still living in 2003, but not that you also exist in 1013.

Just look at the timeline from outside. You see a line drawn between 1938 to 2006. That line won't stop being there, but it does end at 2006.

I'm just saying you're deluded by your perspective of time when you say there might be life "after" death.
  #28  
Old 2013-07-23, 15:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
"After" = in a time beyond. Your life takes place during a certain section of time (from time of birth to time of death); it doesn't exist beyond that section of time. If you're born in 1938 and die in 2006, you can argue that even "now" you're still living in 2003, but not that you also exist in 1013.

Just look at the timeline from outside. You see a line drawn between 1938 to 2006. That line won't stop being there, but it does end at 2006.

I'm just saying you're deluded by your perspective of time when you say there might be life "after" death.
Unless you believe in reincarnation.

But, if you, reincarnated, have a different body and identity, can you still argue it is you?
  #29  
Old 2013-07-23, 16:38
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isn't that a different "life", in that case?
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  #30  
Old 2013-07-23, 17:10
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Indeed...thats always my issue with reincarnation. If I have a different memories, personality etc....then I am not "me" at all. Its someone else.

Quote:
That line won't stop being there, but it does end at 2006.

I'm just saying you're deluded by your perspective of time when you say there might be life "after" death.
While I largely agree, the traditional idea of a after life, would simply say that that line keeps going, however.
That merely one region of the line is "on earth" and the other "in heaven" (or whatever).

This is where I would get into semantics though - as if your body,brain etc don't constitute the sum of "you" and its all merely a vessel for a "soul" - then its the souls timeline that constitutes what we should call "life". And if that was the case "death" would only be whatever would destroy that soul thing.
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  #31  
Old 2013-07-23, 18:48
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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
...
This is where I would get into semantics though - as if your body,brain etc don't constitute the sum of "you" and its all merely a vessel for a "soul" - then its the souls timeline that constitutes what we should call "life". And if that was the case "death" would only be whatever would destroy that soul thing.
Exactly.

Being "alive" is a state you're in if your spirit still has a living body. Were your spirit to loose that body by cause of death, you'd not be "alive" anymore, regardless whether you'd believe in the existence of any kind of afterlife.
The "life" your soul would continue after you die would be a split from the original timeline, or, spacetime.
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  #32  
Old 2013-07-23, 19:55
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You would not be alive, but your soul would still be. While I have hard times believing that we can reincarnate, or that there is an "afterexistance' (even though I realy wonder what happens to your mind, as it feels too perfect to be just a sum of neural and chemical reactions), I still think that if this exists, than we should consider the timeline of the Soul, not the body. Its like we can divide that timeline in two parts, BBD (before body death) and ABD (After body death), and that we are free from the mortal "shackles" when we lose our body. Maybe our soul only dies when it loses its purpose or maybe it whatever it is made of (like energy) is consumed until there is no more, by whatever force could so so.
  #33  
Old 2013-07-23, 20:15
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First things first, I'd like to point out a possible difference between "soul" and "spirit". I researched about both concepts earlier, for purposes of my novel. The following is hence my interpretation of what I learned.

The soul is the nonphysical aspect of a person, its mind and state of mental development. It is a single instance and not really separable from a body. Maybe it is completely enclosed by the world of the brain. The soul grows with a person's experiences, and is associated with memory, morale, conscious, and other mental concepts of the brain.

The spirit however, is connected to a body through a different plane, and is the essence that defines it as "alive". When the body dies, this is what gets detached, and what could be connected to something else in that other plane (like a spiritual collective). It doesn't ever grow, doesn't contain memory or anything, and supposedly has nothing to do with personality.

By that definition, I'd recommend referring to the "spirit" when talking about the afterexistence, and that belief in heaven and hell would dictate it would be the soul that lives on after death in one of either different planes.
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Last edited by J McKalling; 2013-07-23 at 20:24.
  #34  
Old 2013-07-23, 20:48
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I believe that intelligence comes from the matter, once the matter is dead, nothing like a spirit or a soul can carry on...
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  #35  
Old 2013-07-23, 21:18
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Why? Do you have reason to?

I have reason to believe the spirit does, to be able to explain things that otherwise can't be explained. In order words, I set my mind open to the possibility, while it cannot be proven either way.
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  #36  
Old 2013-07-23, 21:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
"After" = in a time beyond. Your life takes place during a certain section of time (from time of birth to time of death);
wow, i never thought of it that way

Quote:
it doesn't exist beyond that section of time. If you're born in 1938 and die in 2006, you can argue that even "now" you're still living in 2003, but not that you also exist in 1013.
I can confirm this. I, too, don't exist in 1013.

Quote:
Just look at the timeline from outside. You see a line drawn between 1938 to 2006. That line won't stop being there, but it does end at 2006.
I tried drawing this on a piece of paper, and once again, it turns out you are right!

Quote:
I'm just saying you're deluded by your perspective of time when you say there might be life "after" death.
don't you see how irrelevant everything you've written is to the subject of reincarnation/afterlife?
you're not explaining why there isn't an afterlife, you're just stating there isn't. the concept of an afterlife isn't at odds with the concept most physicists have of time. any reason anyone might have to believe or disbelieve in an afterlife has nothing to do with time.
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Last edited by Reek; 2013-07-23 at 22:10.
  #37  
Old 2013-07-23, 22:25
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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What I was trying (and failing, my bad) to say is that that I don't rule out life expanding to outside of your lifetime, but saying "after" is just silly because it's biased by our concept of time. Maybe life expands to other people instead of to other times? Maybe life is the sum of all consciousness in the universe? And maybe that consciousness actually contains the universe and is constantly expending on its own dimension, shaping time and space...

Last edited by ChaosFish; 2013-07-23 at 22:46.
  #38  
Old 2013-07-23, 22:44
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I just viewed Jack's thread and it's really sad, so sorry if I said something insensitive
  #39  
Old 2013-07-23, 22:53
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Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
I just viewed Jack's thread and it's really sad, so sorry if I said something insensitive
Thanks. But nope, I'm actually very interested in talking about this concept.
Either way; if anyone would prove any kind of life or existence does not exist after death it would put me to rest, and otherwise it would support me.

Anyway. The "after" part is the only thing that actually makes sense, if you treat the "life" part as the subjective one. It points to the fact it is post-mortem, but it doesn't necessarily mean "life". So instead I suggest using afterexistence, as it's more accurate of the concept that we intent to talk about.

I actually made that word up. Kudos for the mind, right?
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  #40  
Old 2013-07-23, 22:58
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I guess some fellows here want to listen what I've got to say.

Well... baaasically, the people on the other side laughs their asses off at people here who don't believe they exist, and, reading heated debates full of skeptics on the internet is like, their favorite passtime. They also like to see how elaborated our explanations are of their non-existance and find amusing our nature of denial to anything the eyes cannot see and machines cannot measure, which is good for them really, because that's how they can take advantage of our own self-imposed awareness reclusion and ignorance on the subject to manipulate us.

Ok, not really*, but that'd be quite shocking if it was, wouldn't it? uhmm.

* or is it?...
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  #41  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:00
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All right, that one actually is insensitive.
Thanks.

Not all people think bad about things they can't prove, SGK.
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  #42  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:07
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Oh Jack. I'm just joking, geez. Again, it's not particularly about you. I'm just suggesting that this disbelief of the skeptics could be a very humourous subject for those on the other side if a afterlife exists. Not trying to be 'insensitive', 'kay?
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
  #43  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:11
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Oh Jack. I'm just joking, geez. Again, it's not particularly about you. I'm just suggesting that this disbelief of the skeptics could be a very humourous subject for those on the other side if a afterlife exists. Nothing 'insensitive' here, 'kay?
This time, I wasn't talking about myself. I took it insensitive as in general. I'm just not happy with the way you take the subject, regardless of what I feel.
Or at least, I'm trying to ignore my feelings here.
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  #44  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:15
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Just felt like adding some grim and sinister mystery to this thread, that's all.
It's not what I believe or anything, like I said, I'm joking.
Anyhow, my apologies for the inconvenience.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
  #45  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:16
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
I guess some fellows here want to listen what I've got to say.

Well... baaasically, the people on the other side laughs their asses off at people here who don't believe they exist, and, reading heated debates full of skeptics on the internet is like, their favorite passtime. They also like to see how elaborated our explanations are of their non-existance and find amusing our nature of denial to anything the eyes cannot see and machines cannot measure, which is good for them really, because that's how they can take advantage of our own self-imposed awareness reclusion and ignorance on the subject to manipulate us.

Ok, not really*, but that'd be quite shocking if it was, wouldn't it? uhmm.

* or is it?...
I once heard someone said in the afterlife they don't ride horses, they ride lions.
I think that beats reading internet forums as hobbies go
  #46  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:18
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Just felt like adding some grim and sinister mystery to this thread, that's all.
It's not what I believe or anything, like I said, I'm joking.
Anyhow, my apologies for the inconvenience.
For that purpose, it's OK
I kinda do that too very often myself. But it didn't ring any bell yet.
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  #47  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:29
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Originally Posted by J McKalling View Post
For that purpose, it's OK
I kinda do that too very often myself. But it didn't ring any bell yet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse
I once heard someone said in the afterlife they don't ride horses, they ride lions. I think that beats reading internet forums as hobbies go


Problem?
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
  #48  
Old 2013-07-23, 23:52
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sgk, but what is your view on the subject? and what are your reasons for believing what you do?

i'm not interested in another "who's right and who's wrong" argument. what i'd like to see are compelling and interesting arguments for and against the possiblity of an afterlife.
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  #49  
Old 2013-07-24, 00:25
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i'm not interested in another "who's right and who's wrong" argument. what i'd like to see are compelling and interesting arguments for and against the possiblity of an afterlife.
Neither am I. So far I've described concepts, and explained this term could be interpreted in different ways. So my question would be this; do you inquire on the "afterexistence" that we've been talking about, or the "afterconscious" (being aware of one's self after death)?

Or actually the traditional afterlife as believed by some people evolving around the concept of heaven and hell?
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  #50  
Old 2013-07-24, 00:35
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Originally Posted by Reek View Post
sgk, but what is your view on the subject? and what are your reasons for believing what you do?

i'm not interested in another "who's right and who's wrong" argument. what i'd like to see are compelling and interesting arguments for and against the possiblity of an afterlife.
It's kind of odd but I always felt like it was without a doubt.
It just seems natural to me, but cannot point out why.

Anyway, I still say: live your life like it's the only one you get.
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