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  #26  
Old 2008-11-18, 23:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
That means that officially he stands against what he practically does.
Indeed.
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  #27  
Old 2008-11-18, 23:35
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Since when was socialism/communism all about freedom of speech?
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  #28  
Old 2008-11-18, 23:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
Since when was socialism/communism all about freedom of speech?

But he's part of the Left party now, not the Communism one.
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  #29  
Old 2008-11-18, 23:40
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The "Left" party is the communist party of Eastern Germany after a few renamings. The party never vanished, they just changed their face.
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  #30  
Old 2008-11-18, 23:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
The "Left" party is the communist party of Eastern Germany after a few renamings. The party never vanished, they just changed their face.
Fly's point remains, hypocrisy.
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  #31  
Old 2008-11-18, 23:47
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I didn't deny that. I just wanted to point out that they stand for anything but liberalism.
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  #32  
Old 2008-11-19, 00:13
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The same was always said about the Polish Social-Democratic Party, but it's been 18 years since the communism went away crying like the whiny bitch that it was, and the left parties have many of new and young people - at least here.
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  #33  
Old 2008-11-19, 00:21
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Well, be careful. The big competition for the Left party in the East is the Social Democratic Party that originated from West Germany. It and the Left Party are pretty equal in the East. In the West, the Left party is only a tiny radical party with no real power in the state parliaments.
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  #34  
Old 2008-11-19, 00:23
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Well I voted and will be voting for the liberals anyway, just pointing out that those guys might be not as bad as they once were, due to a lot of fresh blood.
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  #35  
Old 2008-11-19, 00:25
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But the point is that this very guy was a former member of the secret service of East Germany. And that very information about his involvement with the Stasi was written on Wikipedia which he didn't like. Not exactly "fresh blood".
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  #36  
Old 2008-11-19, 01:10
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He wasnt actualy asking to get that info removed, it was the pornography claim he was more concerned with
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  #37  
Old 2008-11-19, 05:01
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I'm missing something (again) who is he?


Edit: Lutz Heilmann, right? :P

Sorry, I forgot to turn on my brain while reading the thread. Sometimes you have to save energy!
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  #38  
Old 2008-11-20, 11:57
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Sigh. We're going to see a lot of this bullshit in the near future. We, as a collection of nations and all that, are undergoing a massive revolution and nobody quite knows how to deal with it, because the systems of control and privacy and ownership and freedom are just totally blown away by the Internet. With the power to communicate anything to a massive audience whenever you feel like it, there are going to be people who like and dislike what's being said. Most politicians can't understand the idea of ubiquitous free speech (when was the last time you could say "Jesus can go fuck himself" in a newspaper?), so most of them see the Internet as a threat. This, like most other jaunts of censorship, are just the dying breaths of old dinosaurs, too old to adapt. We sometimes disagree, offend each other and even conspire against each other, and now we finally are forced to come to terms with ourselves.

Too bad we had to invent a global network of electronic machines just to realize that.
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  #39  
Old 2008-11-20, 14:05
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Wise words razorwire.
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  #40  
Old 2008-11-20, 15:01
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The problem is theres a full decade or more where theres still people very much in power/positions of influence who dont get the net at all.
Thats plenty of time for it to fuck up.
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  #41  
Old 2008-11-20, 15:23
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This reminds me that one of Obama's winning arguments was that McCain didn't know how to surf the net.
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  #42  
Old 2008-11-20, 19:59
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This reminds me that one of Obama's winning arguments was that McCain didn't know how to surf the net.
I doubt that swing voters were deeply concerned that Obama has mastered point and click.
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  #43  
Old 2008-11-20, 20:07
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Dunno actualy.
Actualy, these days thats second only to saying someone cant read.
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  #44  
Old 2008-11-20, 20:18
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Dunno actualy.
Actualy, these days thats second only to saying someone cant read.
Considering the state of the economy, I'm pretty confident that was the overarching concern of the vast majority of swing voters. I highly doubt Obama's computer skills (or McCain's alleged lack thereof) were high on the list of "Important things."
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  #45  
Old 2008-11-20, 20:20
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I also doubt that anybody cared about internet skills. It might have been some jokeful reason for voting for Obama, but not a real one.
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  #46  
Old 2008-11-20, 21:09
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Being able to use the worlds biggest source of knowledge I'd rank as "important", yes.
(If it was true), that would be hugely negative factor for me and I'm sure a lot of other voters.(if they knew).

I mean, it effects all your other skills, including how fit you are to deal with the economy.

I mean, come on, would you vote for someone that never read a book?

It might not directly be relivent to issues you want them to deal with, but it would reflect on their knowledge levels and how fit they are too aquire new knowledge when needed.

Its very important that people in power understand, can access and evalute as much information as possible. Particularly independant sources from around the world.
And by far the best way to do that these days is the Internet.


(And thats before we even get to the issues surrounding how the Internet itself is going to get increaseingly important for the encomy. As non-physical goods increase in trade, you will increaseingly need people in power that know what they are talking about when dealing with issues surrounding them.)
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  #47  
Old 2008-11-20, 21:40
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AFAIK it is true... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_106478.html
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  #48  
Old 2008-11-21, 04:38
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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Being able to use the worlds biggest source of knowledge I'd rank as "important", yes.
(If it was true), that would be hugely negative factor for me and I'm sure a lot of other voters.(if they knew).

I mean, it effects all your other skills, including how fit you are to deal with the economy.

I mean, come on, would you vote for someone that never read a book?

It might not directly be relivent to issues you want them to deal with, but it would reflect on their knowledge levels and how fit they are too aquire new knowledge when needed.

Its very important that people in power understand, can access and evalute as much information as possible. Particularly independant sources from around the world.
And by far the best way to do that these days is the Internet.


(And thats before we even get to the issues surrounding how the Internet itself is going to get increaseingly important for the encomy. As non-physical goods increase in trade, you will increaseingly need people in power that know what they are talking about when dealing with issues surrounding them.)
You're missing my point entirely.

Look up the three most important issues in this recent election - let me do it for you: economy, Iraq, and national security (ex. Iran, N.Korea, etc.).

I'm not seeing Obama's 1337 skills being a big factor.

And as far as the Mother Jones piece, it neither substantiates the claim that the internet usage was one of Obama's "winning arguments," nor does it ever actually serve as a real piece of journalism. It's essentially a blog post from a left-wing magazine.
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  #49  
Old 2008-11-21, 08:45
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The problem with internet control is: if you try to censor something (like having wikipedia remove facts about a certain german politician), it can explode in your face. If you piss off enough people, you'll have hundreds of myspace blogs and forums screaming about it. For example, I had no idea about this politician nor his dark mysterious past until he tried to shut down the article.
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  #50  
Old 2008-11-21, 14:06
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Not being able to use the Internet effects your ability to handel all the other issues. It effects your knowledge so that would effect Iraq, Security and economy.
As I said, if the voters knew, then it would be almost as bad as announcing you cant read. At least, to voters under 40.
I personaly dont know if its true, nor if the knowledge was widespread.

I'm merely saying in this day and age basic Internet skills are very important.
Certainly a lot important, say, then landing a aircraft on a boot in the dark.
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