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  #51  
Old 2008-11-21, 15:31
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Kobold Kobold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightwing View Post
The problem with internet control is: if you try to censor something (like having wikipedia remove facts about a certain german politician), it can explode in your face. If you piss off enough people, you'll have hundreds of myspace blogs and forums screaming about it. For example, I had no idea about this politician nor his dark mysterious past until he tried to shut down the article.
That's exactly what they were laughing at in the Wikipedia café discussion.
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  #52  
Old 2008-11-21, 15:49
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The internet is a self-correcting organism.
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  #53  
Old 2008-11-21, 16:09
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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And we are its limbs.
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  #54  
Old 2008-11-21, 19:49
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And we are its limbs.
Who gets to be the third leg then?
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  #55  
Old 2008-11-21, 22:51
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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Not being able to use the Internet effects your ability to handel all the other issues. It effects your knowledge so that would effect Iraq, Security and economy.
As I said, if the voters knew, then it would be almost as bad as announcing you cant read. At least, to voters under 40.
I personaly dont know if its true, nor if the knowledge was widespread.

I'm merely saying in this day and age basic Internet skills are very important.
Certainly a lot important, say, then landing a aircraft on a boot in the dark.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the President would be uninformed on issues like Iraq, national security, and the economy because they couldn't use the internet? Because I'm pretty sure the slew of advisers, intelligence sessions, and classified information that a Western leader is exposed to constantly might just, in fact, usurp the awesomeness of the interwebz.

And I'm somewhat skeptical that navigating 4chan is somehow more significant than a fighter pilot's mission, but that's just me. I guess I care more about those sort of things than I do about /b/.
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  #56  
Old 2008-11-22, 00:41
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Well, what DF saying is kinda right. But the trouble is that a lot of folks in America themselves can't use the interwebs. Those folks don't really care which president knows how to access his facebook account.
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  #57  
Old 2008-11-22, 03:31
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I don't think the issue here is about how Obama uses the internet, but why. Who cares if he can connect to a Wi-Fi access point using a Broadcom USB dongle with ndiswrapper on Linux 2.4.22? What's important here is that he knows what this is all about, why it matters and that he protects it. He doesn't need to understand how, that's our job, but he does need to understand why.
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  #58  
Old 2008-11-22, 03:45
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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With that I don't agree razorwire. The world would have been a much better place if the people who make decisions about application were the same people who are involved in development.

The way it is now, scientists (usually smart people) are used by politicians (usually 10 attribute points charisma, 300 skill points speech, and not much else) to do what they, the lesser minds, find useful. I don't like that...
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  #59  
Old 2008-11-22, 15:19
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Originally Posted by lightwing View Post
well, what df saying is kinda right. But the trouble is that a lot of folks in america themselves can't use the interwebs. Those folks don't really care which president knows how to access his facebook account.
omg obama is one of mah friendz!!111!!!
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  #60  
Old 2008-11-22, 18:11
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This is pretty ridiculous. First of all, do you really think whoever is president will have time to go around visiting news sites and whatnot? Obama will likely spend his online minutes visiting RedTube and reading email.

Secondly, it's rather silly to say being computer illiterate is as bad as being unable to read. Internet usage per se will not affect Obama's decisions concerning Iraq, security and the economy, and it wouldn't affect McCain's. There is little important information that is exclusively available online. Whatever weight the Internet carries has more to do with the big companies that play in it - that could impact the economy - and you don't have to actually use their products so you can understand their game. I guess the Internet is also imporant security-wise, but this is far from either McCain or Obama's reach.
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  #61  
Old 2008-11-22, 18:17
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The only advantage to having internet literacy is that you can buy shares online.
Can't think why a president would need that.


Obama's a bit of a trophy president. He just has what the majority of the world wants. He can use the internet, he's Black, he's young, he's liberal.
But when it comes down to his experience(Let alone his right to be president, since he's been for almost half his life without an American citizenship.) and political savvie, he has very little to show. America elected a president for the wrong reasons.
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  #62  
Old 2008-11-22, 19:16
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Liberal isnt a "wrong reason" if you wanted a liberal president.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medur View Post
This is pretty ridiculous. First of all, do you really think whoever is president will have time to go around visiting news sites and whatnot? Obama will likely spend his online minutes visiting RedTube and reading email.
Does a president have time to read a newspaper?

Quote:
Secondly, it's rather silly to say being computer illiterate is as bad as being unable to read. Internet usage per se will not affect Obama's decisions concerning Iraq, security and the economy, and it wouldn't affect McCain's. There is little important information that is exclusively available online.
Sorry, but thats just wrong in so many ways.

Goto google news,or simerla, type something, hit enter.

You will get news sourced from around the world. Normaly thousands of results, many with histortical archieves dateing back decades.

Thats precisely the sort of diverse information a world leader should get.
And is far more important, relivent, and unbiased then anything their advisers would tell him, or localy sourced media (eg,worst case: Fox news)

Theres not only shitloads more important information online then within the presidents reach in any other method, its a lot less bias*
*or to be more correct, its biased in thousands of different ways from thousands of different viewpoints. Rather then just a single, US-centric, narrow bias.

Its just simple common sense. To make the best discisions you should have access to a wide range of data, and you try to insolate and compansate for bias within it.

Not knowing how to use the Internet is very much like not reading these days. (Its not as bad, of course, because obviously using the net depends on the skill of reading anyway )

But it is still staggeringly important for a leader now.

Like reading, without it you get a narrower worldview and much slower access to information.


Quote:
Whatever weight the Internet carries has more to do with the big companies that play in it - that could impact the economy - and you don't have to actually use their products so you can understand their game.
Well, its certainly true you dont have to use a product to understand enough to make decisions about it. (or, rather, deligate to people that do know and can). No president can possible use/need everything they will effect in their policys.

But the internet isnt one product...its hundreds of thousands. Its a comminication and distribution grid and its only going to get more and more important.

America has a terrible track record with online issues. Granting exclusive monopolys to ISP's has left it with one of the worst states of broadband in the western world, as well as some of the most expensive prices.

Its really hard to overstate how important the internet is, and will become.
To take one example;
Think of the full production process of a music CD. The plastic's, the chemicals, paper for the sleave. Distribution, saleing at a retail store etc.
Pretty much the same goes for dvds and games too.
How many are sold each year? Each one going over the same process.

This is a huge amount of resources being used each year. Using up finite oil-reserves, as well as finite amounts of other materials less common.
Not to mention using up manpower itself...which in many ways is the biggest resource a country has.

Having a poor internet network means this process will have to go on, and slows down the adoption rates of digital distribution.
Which is not just a convience but an absolute nessciety as these resources run out. I'm sorry if it seems like hyperbole, but its quite a simple truth. Resources are running out, and the most realistic method to get people to stop using them is to deliver the services virtualy.

Bad policys from govement's not understanding the internet will damage the encomy quite significantly.

Quote:
Are you seriously trying to argue that the President would be uninformed on issues like Iraq, national security, and the economy because they couldn't use the internet? Because I'm pretty sure the slew of advisers, intelligence sessions, and classified information...
...would be less informed yes.
Its relative. You wouldnt be completely uninformed without the net, I agree on that, but you would be less so.

Also, its hardly like "intelligence sessions, and classified information" has had a particularly good track record recently.

Multiple sources of information you seek out yourself is worth more then Being surrounding by people feeding you information.

Quote:
And I'm somewhat skeptical that navigating 4chan is somehow more significant than a fighter pilot's mission, but that's just me.
Two logical fallacys in one statement;

a) You assume all internet browseing is trival. You might as well say "I'm somewhat skeptical reading the Beano is..." as an arguement against reading being important.

b) Its not about how significant a fighter pilot's mission is, but how significant the skill of a fighter pilot is to being president.

Two completely seperate things.
The first could, in theory, win a war.
The second is utterly worthless. In no way shape or form is being able to fly a fighter jet help you run a country.

Different skills for different jobs.
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Last edited by Kitarii; 2008-11-25 at 02:01. Reason: fixed quote tags
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  #63  
Old 2008-11-23, 00:18
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I really want a world leader who bases his decisions on 4chan!

Because, dammit, if he didn't get a chance to read that last Perez Hilton column, this whole world is going to be absolutely fucked!

/b/
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  #64  
Old 2008-11-25, 01:50
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Gustav Sweden Gustav Sweden is offline
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Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Fly's point remains, hypocrisy.
Well, while you indeed could call it hypocrisy, it's hardly sensational that it is a person from post-communist Linkspartei who is behind such a measure. Its an extremist socialist party with quite poor democratic credentials.

And no, John McCain didn't lose because he didn't know how to use the internet... And as Medur and Double-J points out, it is not a big issue either. I am sure that if he had won, he would have enough expertise on the internet in his staff and among advisors.

If we should discuss lack of experiences, wouldn't the fact that he never ran a government be more important? (which, of course, also is true for Mr. Obama)

Btw, Kobold: What is your progonosis of next year? Is there a big risk of the Linkspartei ending up in a coallition government?
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Last edited by Gustav Sweden; 2008-11-25 at 01:57.
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  #65  
Old 2008-11-25, 20:22
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Kobold Kobold is offline
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Originally Posted by Gustav Sweden View Post
Btw, Kobold: What is your progonosis of next year? Is there a big risk of the Linkspartei ending up in a coallition government?
Nobody will want to work with them if they have to. There's been a lot of trouble in Hesse's state parliament because of that. The state diet was elected with no majority for both opposing coalitions. And both big parties had excluded cooperating with the Linkspartei prior to the elections. So in the end they couldn't form any government at all. So just one year after the election they'll have another one, this time not excluding a coalition with the Linkspartei.

For the federation, things look a bit different. Merkel is very popular mainly because she does nothing concerning inner affairs at all. She's constantly abroad. She has no opinion on any of the important matters and thus there's usually a dispute among the ministers in the "Great Coalition" of social democrats and christian democrats. So most likely they'll all vote christian democratic this time, leaving little chance for any Linkspartei in the government.

I personally don't see much radicalness in the left party. What's more alarming is the rise of neonazi and other right-wing parties within the last years, especially in Austria.
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