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  #51  
Old 2012-01-21, 16:35
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It's not just SOPA and PIPA... I give you ACTA.
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  #52  
Old 2012-01-21, 17:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia View Post
It's not just SOPA and PIPA... I give you ACTA.
That's so bleak... sends a shiver down my spine. This whole stuff actually started to give me nightmares

All I can do is hope the masses of civilians won't be stupid enough to submit to regimes like that. Even in dictatorships people don't just surrender to this stuff.
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  #53  
Old 2012-01-21, 18:09
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Once again, the problem is copyright. It should be abolished.
Really, it doesn't give any benefits for the autors/creators.
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  #54  
Old 2012-01-21, 18:27
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Someone I know just described this as "Laws being suggested by rich old technophobes in order to protect other rich old technophobes and their outdated business models against the internet." Exactly.
And I think the fact that everyone got so vocal about SOPA and PIPA means that people absolutely will not submit to that sort of regime.
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  #55  
Old 2012-01-21, 19:06
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Its depressing indeed. Especialy combined with the fact things out of copyright can be re-copyrighted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Once again, the problem is copyright. It should be abolished..
Once again, without copyright the biggest publishers win by default anyway. No one would ever need to go anywhere else for content.

Plus, they still have DRM and encrytion laws on their side. Its illegal to publish methods to get around DRM. (aka, Sony sueing the guy that published the ps3 crack. They also got a court order for Google to have to give them the IP address's and accounts of everyone who watched the video.). This is the sort of fucked up laws and companys we are dealing with here.

Copyright isn't the problem , its just abuse is just one symtom of too much corporate influence in goverment.

Not to mention the gullable public.
Hell, they tricked most of the population into using HDMI cables - DRM in the cables themselves to prevent copying a video signal. You dont even need HDMI for HD resolutions! It was all about the DRM.
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  #56  
Old 2012-01-21, 20:10
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Without copyrights, why would there be DRMs ? Illegal to copy something public ? That wouldn't pass either, and people would still want to watch movies/series and listen to music for free.
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  #57  
Old 2012-01-21, 22:18
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What's that about HDMI and DRM? Never heard of that before. DRM in the cables? How does it even work?
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  #58  
Old 2012-01-21, 22:58
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Insidiously:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HDCP

Its basicly to try to stop you being able to record stuff using a capture card.

Quote:
Without copyrights, why would there be DRMs ?
To stop you copying stuff. Just because you take away the law doesnt make all these companys suddenly nice. They will use anything they can, and that mostly means software tech.

Quote:
and people would still want to watch movies/series and listen to music for free.
Which is a problem for small creators as any large publisher could bankrupt them by giving their stuff away for free.
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  #59  
Old 2012-01-21, 23:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Which is a problem for small creators as any large publisher could bankrupt them by giving their stuff away for free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
Darkflame you've missed my point again...

I would advocate "Authorship Privileges" rather then transferable "Copy Rights". An "Authorship Privilege" would state that Authorship is granted (as reason would dictate) automatically to the person or persons responsible for the work; it is non-transferable, eternal, cannot be forfeit or sold or passed on - it is a simple fact of being the author. Further on, claiming to be the author of works that can be conclusively proven to not belong to you is considered intellectual theft. A failure to cite the source of the work (unless the author wants otherwise) one is sharing would also be considered as a violation of that idea/law however not as severe if one was not implicitly claiming to be the author.

And that's all there is to it, or what I think is needed. No giant media conglomerate would start on a major campaign of sharing the works of their competitors, because they would have to cite the source - thus turning the whole endeavour into a freebie advertising campaign.
Don't agree.
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  #60  
Old 2012-01-21, 23:32
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In a better economy, authors would simply gain their fair share of social credits / privileges in correspondence with how much their creations are consumed.
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  #61  
Old 2012-01-21, 23:56
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Jasiek - You didnt explain how author rights would result in the author getting paid.
Just to be clear: I'm all for non-transferable copyright.

But if you can copy even without claiming ownership, I dont see whats stopping big publishers from exploiting the system. The fact they have to cite their source is good...but that doesnt mean people will seak out and pay the original creator.

Another example: You write a book. Hollywood makes a direct movie version of it. You get a credit but no money. Is that fair?
---
Quote:
In a better economy, authors would simply gain their fair share of social credits / privileges in correspondence with how much their creations are consumed.
Yes that would be nice.
It would be impossible to admin for cheap enough. But I think if musicians were "paid", the equilivent of say, 0.1cent every time you listen to their track then the artists that actualy make the most listened to stuff would be the richest. (and not ones people just buy due to adverts, listen once,then never again :P).
We pay for electricity and fuel based on how much we use, why not media?
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  #62  
Old 2012-01-22, 00:45
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How authors would get paid is beside the point here. This discussion is about what's fair and natural, and for people to claim ownership of ideas (as opposed to authorship) is not only absurd but immoral and harmful to communication and culture. A good equivalent here would be the case for the banishment of slavery, and people wondering about how will the economy work without the cheap labour. There are things that are simply wrong and have to be dealt with in absolutes.

I'll play along however, and my answer to you is that authors and creative people will find ways, as they did before the idea of copyright first came to be in the fearful mind of a XVIIIth century British censor. They'll use pledges, donations, "pay what you can", they'll sell hard copies and promotional materials. They'll sell like they sold before, but thanks to the digital age they'll do it without the middle-men, and despite sharing being natural and "unlegislated" the conscious consumer whose rise we're seeing these days will still seek them out and pay them if they're good or interesting enough.

Regarding your book example, I've said it twice now, that it would be ok to share ideas and information and works for free, however the only person able to make profit out of them would be the original author. If you want to adapt a book as a film and give it away for free... you're free to do so, but if you want to sell it you need to make a deal with the author.

Anyway I doubt that in a system where no one could transfer the ownership of ideas Hollywood or any media conglomerate would last long enough to exploit it.
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  #63  
Old 2012-01-22, 15:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek
A good equivalent here would be the case for the banishment of slavery, and people wondering about how will the economy work without the cheap labour. There are things that are simply wrong and have to be dealt with in absolutes.
Maybe not slavery per se, but certainly it is cheap labor what I'm going to mention here. Namely, everyone opening factories in China etc. to get products manufactured cheaper than they would get manufactured in eg. Europe. The result is, European industry pretty much stagnating as European factories get closed and so on, resulting in less jobs, therefore less revenue for the countries... therefore exactly the crisis we're going on right now.
But people seem to be blind to what the problem actually is. What in my opinion should be done is to tax imports enough so that regardless of where you opened your factory, you'd end up paying the same as if you opened your factory in your own country. And possibly give bigger subsidies to those who want to open a factory in their own country. So people would no longer have any benefit from opening factories in China, etc. and European industry would live again.

But fact is, the current system benefits the large corporations - they pay as little as possible to get the product manufactured and profit as much as they can from the end product. And as long as it does, our legislators will be blind to this.
Just like they will be blind to increasingly authoritarian copyright law until it goes so far that that large corporations themselves start actually losing revenue (copyright actions driving their product prices so high that less and less people can afford them).

However, a solution would be to adopt direct democracy in all countries, like they have in Switzerland. This means a system in which the people vote for every single law that passes, by means of referenda, rather than having laws passed by an elected elite.
And I think that kind of direct democracy is what the Occupy protests are seeking to establish.
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  #64  
Old 2012-01-22, 16:20
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I'd argue slavery is a perfect example of people being eploited and not paid: aka what happens without copyright (anti-slavery) laws

Quote:
But people seem to be blind to what the problem actually is.
People in China working in near slave conditions
Seriously, its disgusting the conditions at Foxxcon etc.

Quote:
This means a system in which the people vote for every single law that passes, by means of referenda, rather than having laws passed by an elected elite.
And I think that kind of direct democracy is what the Occupy protests are seeking to establish.
Agreed. But even that has to be carefully handeled. Without a good, fair, press to inform the public a lot of missinformation can lead to bad decisions.
I think possibly qualifications in some case's should give you more voting power on a specific subject too. (ie, health choices are best made by doctors, etc). Allthough even then its hard to remove bias.
--

Anyway, in all this depressing news we need something to lighten the mood.

Anyone else see this pop up during the blackout:

FactsWithoutWikipedia
Quote:
The very first house cats were 30% cat; 70% house.
Quote:
A menstrual cycle has 5 wheels. That's why it's complicated.
Quote:
the moon is the only thing in outer space that you can see from the Great Wall of China
Quote:
Fish Fingers are actually made from toes of fish
https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23FactsWithoutWikipedia

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  #65  
Old 2012-01-22, 17:56
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If you press your ear to someone's leg you can hear them say "What are you doing?"

You can plant a pasta tree in your backyard in order to reduce your carbonara footprint.

Pluto is no longer a planet due to claims from the Disney corporation.

Before Sir Isaac Newton invented gravity in the seventeenth century, everything had to be nailed down.

Loving these!
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  #66  
Old 2012-01-22, 18:21
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Yeah, there great
--
Back to the non-fun stuff just for a moment:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ney-over-anti/

So, basicly, Hollywood is threating to stop spending money on polititians.
Win.
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  #67  
Old 2012-01-23, 01:36
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I'm wondering if sites are already starting to be affected by the prospect of this legislation... two video streaming sites, Videozer and Videobb have started to delete anything and everything that is copyrighted, while filesharing site filesonic is no longer for sharing - only for downloading files that you, personally, have uploaded. Annoying, because one of my favourite shows I could only find Videozer links for and they've all disappeared. It's not even released on DVD, so no way I can watch it now!
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  #68  
Old 2012-01-23, 02:55
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same here for megavideo. They're killing all our hobbies.
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  #69  
Old 2012-01-23, 04:40
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I know most of us are not teenagers here but, worth the joke.

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  #70  
Old 2012-01-23, 14:22
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I think its less about caring and more about thinking you can effect things more with certain subjects then others.
You can look at things like the 99% protests and see a fair number of younger people there too I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia View Post
I'm wondering if sites are already starting to be affected by the prospect of this legislation... two video streaming sites, Videozer and Videobb have started to delete anything and everything that is copyrighted, while filesharing site filesonic is no longer for sharing - only for downloading files that you, personally, have uploaded. Annoying, because one of my favourite shows I could only find Videozer links for and they've all disappeared. It's not even released on DVD, so no way I can watch it now!
Might have more to do with the Megaupload raid recently by the FBI.
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  #71  
Old 2012-01-23, 16:36
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God damn. Filesonic too? FBI is making a joke out themselves. MegaUpload is located in Hong Kong which is not even in good terms with the USA. And the FBI busts them for breaking US copyright laws? Aren't they supposed to be an elite police force that fights extreme cases of domestic crime? Or at least that's how they are defined in all those TV shows. Idiots.

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  #72  
Old 2012-01-23, 17:00
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And now it's FileServe and UploadStation too...

Guess we're back to torrents now.
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  #73  
Old 2012-01-23, 18:13
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Actualy, what I'm reading the people running Megaupload didn't sound like very nice people. (and its a much bigger operation then I thought - they had servers everywhere, the main staff were rich enough to have collections of flashy cars with number plates like "MAFFIA" and, ironicaly, "GUILTY").

They also seem fully away of the fillsharing based on internal emails.
One even said, effectively "Its ok to raise the number of urls a company can send us to block in a day, because at the moment we are making enough money anyway". (ie, the amount they care about copyright infringement or not purely depended on their income).
The DMCA laws (which MU applied for) only give you safe habour if you make every effort to take down copyrighted content when asked.

However , the thing is - while looking at the evidence now it seems Megaupload was pretty guilty of a few dodgy things - much of this evidence only comes after they were investigated.

What gave them the right to investigate to start with? I cant see anything Megaupload was doing wrong from the "outside" that would have justified raiding their emails and servers.
Its like if police break into your house without a warrent and find your processing drugs.
The fact they found wrongdoing doesnt justify their lack of warrent.

This whole thing sets a worrying trend for all hosts of user generated/supplied data online
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  #74  
Old 2012-01-23, 18:45
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Nice summary I found:
Quote:
MegaUpload - Closed.
FileServe - Closing does not sell premium.
FileJungle - Deleting files. Locked in the U.S.
UploadStation - Locked in the U.S.
FileSonic - The news is arbitrary (under FBI investigation).
VideoBB - Closed! would disappear soon.
Uploaded - Banned U.S. and the FBI went after the owners who are gone.
FilePost - Deleting all material (so will leave executables, pdfs, txts)
Videoz - closed and locked in the countries affiliated with the USA.
4shared - Deleting files with copyright and waits in line at the FBI.
MediaFire - Called to testify in the next 90 days and it will open doors pro FBI
Org torrent - could vanish with everything within 30 days "he is under criminal investigation"
Network Share mIRC - awaiting the decision of the case to continue or terminate Torrent everything.
Koshiki - operating 100% Japan will not join the SOPA / PIPA.
Shienko Box - 100% working china / korea will not join the SOPA / PIPA
ShareX BR - group UOL / BOL / iG say they will join the SOPA / PIPA
Is this the beginning of a new dark age, or a last lost fight of a dying idea?
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  #75  
Old 2012-01-23, 21:32
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Looks like it might end public direct downloadable links to files.
I dont see any clear cut line between what these people are doing and what "more respected" systems like dropbox are doing.

Its got a long,long,long way before this has effects on filesharing in general though. Direct links go? You got torrents. Torrent sites go? You got decentralized p2p networks of various sorts. Those go? You got newsgroups.
And then theres probably more methods waiting in the wings too.
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