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  #1  
Old 2006-02-03, 14:11
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schitzn schitzn is offline
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Bad Impressions of site

I only joined the network today, and out of curiosity I looked in this "Dear moderators" section.

Im a bit eyebrow raised on the professionalism of this site.

We have moderators flaming moderators in public view

We have coarse language like FUCK BULLSHIT appearing almost at least once in each post reply.

Then theres my impression I get from absurdity of public "power plays" I get from mods abusing their authority and not thinking of the wider community.

My main concern is if this site is being ran by these types of people, are they really in a position to be dealing with a G rated product that kids can freely look up, and be actively promoting this to publishers and possible enthusiasts who just like me will eventually stumble upon this kind of garbage while browsing through this "professional" site?

Im not disciplining, I dont know anyone here, but maybe these folks should look from the outside in and see the damage their doing. a degree of thought before reacting would go a long way with the strength of this site, as well as the broader LBA community.

anywayz

Food for thought

Schitzn
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  #2  
Old 2006-02-03, 15:01
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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You just joined the forum today and already have complaints? That doesn't give me a very good impression of you.

I've been here since the beginning and no moderator here has EVER abused their power. And this include myself.
Also, what dates of posts were you viewing? Talking about myself now, I used to be not-very-nice sometimes some years ago (I've been here since I was like, a kid) but I hope I grew up since then. Still never "abused" my power.
And there was never "power plays", stop imagining stuff.

Let's just say this is an all-age forum, but if you're afraid of words like "fuck" you probably better find a different place to be. I gather "all-age" means something like 11+.

But seriously, how come you already feel comfortable enough to complain? First be active and once you actually feel like you're belong, feel free to say whatever you want. It's not very "polite" to come to a strange forum and already complain of how disappointed you are of it.
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  #3  
Old 2006-02-03, 18:32
Lightwing Lightwing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schitzn
Im a bit eyebrow raised on the professionalism of this site.

We have moderators flaming moderators in public view

We have coarse language like FUCK BULLSHIT appearing almost at least once in each post reply.

Then theres my impression I get from absurdity of public "power plays" I get from mods abusing their authority and not thinking of the wider community.

My main concern is if this site is being ran by these types of people, are they really in a position to be dealing with a G rated product that kids can freely look up, and be actively promoting this to publishers and possible enthusiasts who just like me will eventually stumble upon this kind of garbage while browsing through this "professional" site?
I very much appreciate your input and on behalf of this forum, apologize for any inconvenience we may have brought.

The difficulty is that many people here have grown in the past 6 years, and we rarely get young visitors. This makes it hard for us to realize that certain expressions can offend people.

However, we have in recent years established rules against personal insults. Most of the time, members are punished for such things, and the recent quarrel between Axx and Choasfish has not been forgotten. The matter will be fully dealt with later on, as many of us have agreed to put quarrels aside during the initial stages of the LBA3 campaign.

I sincerely hope that you haven't fully rejected this forum, and that you might stay a bit longer (or come back another time). Our manhandling of the forum is not so drastic as you describe it to be (edit), and we are always welcome to hear complaints even from the newest members (despite what ChoasFish says).

Best Regards~

Last edited by Lightwing; 2006-02-04 at 01:22.
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  #4  
Old 2006-02-03, 20:06
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the_angry_monkey the_angry_monkey is offline
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I'm afraid I agree with Chaosfish here - how can you make such judgements without bothering to get to know any of us first??? Why not hang around a bit longer rather than dredging up old news
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  #5  
Old 2006-02-03, 20:33
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You might at least heed my notice, Schitzn: We may have had some flames and mean arguments, but we have more prosper than it. It's just that you're looking on Dear Moderators' forum where most of these bad things ends up in. We're just making it out, solve the problem and live for another 3 months or more until some issue is coming up. It's nothing but a discussion forum. Just focus more on where there are Off-topic, General and other forums than this, ok?
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  #6  
Old 2006-02-03, 22:09
Lightwing Lightwing is offline
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I agree that he overstated the condition of the site (although some parts of his statements are true). I would have normally disregarded such an opinion, but he said that he had viewed the forum for 12 months and had contributed to the campaign a bit.
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  #7  
Old 2006-02-03, 22:15
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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I don't know about you Lightwing, you and me are quite different I guess. But personally for me, I don't like accepting constructive criticism from a complete strager unless I asked for that myself. (and yes I realize it wasn't personally about me only)
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  #8  
Old 2006-02-03, 22:21
Lightwing Lightwing is offline
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Nothing he said affected my ways of thinking, he just refreshed my attention as I previously ignored the recent conflict.

In any case, I didn't like that his opinion was being out right rejected. I didn't accept his criticism, but I mentioned that it would not be ignored. Which is important, because I don't want anybody on this forum to feel like their opinion should be automatically rejected.
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  #9  
Old 2006-02-03, 22:29
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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This quote of yours: "Most of the time, members are punished for such things, and the recent quarrel between Axx and Choasfish has not been forgotten. The matter will be fully dealt with later on"
Was out of place and insulting.
Just thought you should know (as you made a dodgy response when I sent you a pm about it).

This thread is not legitimate imo. I wouldn't go into a group of friends, from which I don't know anybody and start telling them they should change the way they deal stuff/etc. (Just a "real world" metaphor.)
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  #10  
Old 2006-02-03, 22:54
Lightwing Lightwing is offline
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Dodgy responce?

I said it before, and I'll say it again. My mentioning of that was a reference to Gustav's statement (which I fully support).

I said it now only because I didn't pay attention to the conflict before.

If you don't like the fact that I support Gustav's opinion on the matter, that's fine. But don't call me a boot licker.

P.S. And no, by "matter will be fully dealt with" I did not mean people were going to be punished.
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  #11  
Old 2006-02-03, 23:21
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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You know Lightwing, why don't we both just stop this now? I reaaaly don't feel like having a fight/annoying argument. Really.

(no I'm not being sarcastic)
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  #12  
Old 2006-02-04, 01:23
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I just realized I made a bit of a mistake in my first post.
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  #13  
Old 2006-02-04, 02:04
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If this was a business, then I would be the customer and you would be the manager.

Being the manager doesnt mean you have control of your business, the customer has control, because he can choose were to go, thus spend his money (or spend his time).

That decision the customer makes is based on how he perceives the business, if he gets poor service, lack of professionalism and poor quality.

This site is a great place, Ive been visiting it as Ive said in a previous post for over 12mnths. I decided to contribute to the community, and as a customer Ive decided to spend my time looking around the forum sections yesterday.

"Dear Moderators" is the "Service Questionaire" that I decided to fill in to give my feedback to the business of my experience. The manager of a business uses this to find ways to satisfy his customers thus ensuring maximum thru-put.

Although Ive referred continually to this website as a business, and this is a website without the profit intention, wouldnt you like to grow your forum members and thus word of mouth of your site? There are great things that come with this growth.

My intention of feedback is not to be flamed or be an asswipe, its because I like the site and have done so for a while, and wanted to contribute my idea to the manager because I want to see his busienss grow for the better.
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  #14  
Old 2006-02-04, 02:41
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This forum is in no way a body of commercial or non-commercial business.

Businesses are cold blooded (as they often must be to survive), and aim to satisfy people to get the maximum amount of customers. Our desire to satisfy others comes only from the desire to give respect.

This means that if you come to our forum and hint that you have control over it, the amount of respect towards you will probably decrease.

If anything, this is a body of politics, sir, not a business place. We are not managers who try to please customers, but moderators who try to maintain order. You are welcome to drop your commentary and feedback, but do not think of them anything more than that.

I, for one, was very much supportive of your feedback and even got into a quarrel with a fellow member who've I known for 7 years, BECAUSE of your suggestions.

But your last statement has really loosened my support. Please understand, if you want to make a change in this site, you'll have to pay attention to your attitude. You are dealing with people, sir, not managers who will do any cold blooded deed to appease every client that comes by their doorsteps (as often managers do).

Now, having said all this, I still respect your contributions to the LBA3 campaign, and hope that you will see this forum as a community, rather than a place of business.

I ALSO realise that you intent the best for this forum and don't mean to insult. However, your approach has been rather aggressive, which means that people (such as myself) will perceive your criticism in a negative light.

Last edited by Lightwing; 2006-02-04 at 03:07.
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  #15  
Old 2006-02-04, 04:25
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Understood
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  #16  
Old 2006-02-04, 05:16
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Wow O_o
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  #17  
Old 2006-02-04, 11:52
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Stupid threads like this cause what you stand against schitzn, maybe you could have brought up certain ideas on how to stop flaming instead of a childish argument.
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  #18  
Old 2006-02-04, 14:13
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personally, i cant stand forums where there are strict policies on swearing, let people talk however they want i say
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  #19  
Old 2006-02-04, 16:34
Atresica Atresica is offline
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I just wish to congretulate Lightwing on handling the situation. Cheers mate

Constructive Critisism, from who it might be, is always welcome (cause, y'know, it's constructive). At least schitzn took the time to word his opinion, instead of saying "OMG, you s*ck you" ...well, you get it.

However, a moderator's fuction is not to attract more people to a forum (people decide themselves where they want to go), but to make sure the already existing community, be it newbies or veterans, get along well and without too much drama. A moderator's fuction is not to appeal to visitors or to keep them in the community (as states before, they decide that themselves).

I may be one of the moderators for...well, since the existance of the forum, but I never have encountered serious power abuse by moderators and I'm happy to state that this makes us more free and mature than 99% of the other forums online.

Situations like that mess between Chaosfish and Axx should have, in my opinion, be dealt with in PM's because it IS a personal argument and public moderators have no business in this. (After all, the police too doesn't interfere with neighbour fights unless one of the people involved breaks a law)

The biggest 'wank', as we put it to gently in internetslang, has been generated with the conflicts with and over Obraseilo. In this case, it shows that we as moderator team tried our best to find an acceptable compromise in the situation. That these good intentions can go wrongly had been shown multiple times in this situation, but non-the less we tried.

No moderator here should abuse power and all moderators should be well aware of this nearly sacred law of good forums.

I hope that clears some stuff up. In case it doesn't, blame my 5 hours of sleep.
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  #20  
Old 2006-02-04, 16:45
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elmuerte elmuerte is offline
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The words "fuck" and "bullshit" have done less harm in the world than the word "god" has done.


I was going to write a statement, but couldn't find the right words to express my views on how this site should be run, and stuff like that. I largely agree on what Lightwing already has said.


I expect people to stand open for other ideas and views. They don't have to agree on them at all. They just have to accept that not everybody thinks alike. This whole site is LBA related, but I give people freedom to talk about other things (in the off-topic forum). I think strict rules and ruling is a bad thing. People will not learn from that. If people want to talk about religion it's fine with me, but I strongly discourage topics like that because they usually end up in flamewars because people refuse to stand open for the other ideas\views (which is wrong to begin with). I'm not saying people should avoid confrontation, I just want those confrontations to be well argumented, otherwise it's just spam.

About the Axx vs ChaosFish subject. I have mixed feelings about that. And as far as I can tell, it was mostly caused by miscommunication and\or a different interpretation of what was said. Should they have "fought" it out in private? Maybe so. Because this fight was public other visitors can learn from it, and better understand how Axx and ChaosFish tick. Also others can but in on the fight to correct certain false assumptions. Although choice of words could have been better.
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Last edited by elmuerte; 2006-02-04 at 17:02.
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  #21  
Old 2006-02-05, 22:27
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Gustav Sweden Gustav Sweden is offline
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I didn't have time to read this topic yesterday, but I did it now.

I think that schnitz contribution to the debate is very nice and important, since he is right - there will be many new people coming on now, and therefor his perspective interesting. As a new member, he has identified something that he thinks is a problem, and if he thinks like that there is a risk that other new members tbink the same. If they do, it is bad for the forum.

Therefor schnitz criticism should be taken seriously, and perhaps we, the mods and temp mods, need to change the way we behave.

I don't entirely agree with the other mods here on the fact that the we act better and more responsible than on other forums. No, there has never been direct power abuse, but on the other hand quite aggressive rethorics against non-mods which has upset people has not been uncommon.

But I actually think that schnitz exagerate the situation. Because this place is still running quite well.

About what the forum is, (let's set aside the fact that I don't agree with Lightwing's business-negative opinions ) it is not per definition a business because the site isn't being run commercially with profit maximation as target. It is more like a part of the civil society, a voluntary association of some kind.

That does, however, not change the fact that the moderators are without responsibility on whether people decide to come here or not. If we act in a good way, I guess that more people will stay (although I think that the number of people who decide to leave a forum where it has stayed for a long time because of a moderator is very low unless the situation is very bad), and if we act in a way that our "guests" dislike, they will go to another forum. And I guess that the aim with the forum is to hold a LBA discussion, and that won't happen if the members disappear.
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  #22  
Old 2006-02-05, 23:30
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elmuerte elmuerte is offline
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All in all, most of the complaints would be about threads in either off-topic or this forum.
Maybe I should put up a notice on those forums: "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

And just in case you don't know, that phrase is on the gates to hell (according to Dante's Divine Comedy)
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  #23  
Old 2006-02-06, 00:08
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lol - not a bad plan that
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  #24  
Old 2006-02-07, 18:54
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Quote:
If this was a business, then I would be the customer and you would be the manager.
I think that that quote is enough to just close this thread, at least combined with this quote:
Quote:
Ive been visiting it as Ive said in a previous post for over 12mnths.
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  #25  
Old 2006-02-07, 23:07
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Hello and welcome to the forum.
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