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  #1  
Old 2003-06-10, 13:43
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The power of a mind

Last night was very strange for me.
Maybe it was because i watched Animatrix untill very late, who knows.

Anyway, for some reason, I couldn't fall asleep last night.
I kept on dreaming about stuff like whether i'm in the real world, and if i can use my mind to become stronger..many things that were influenced by waching the matrix.
Several times I heard strange noises, like explosions..
I know these noises can't be real, so i must have imagined them..
But the noises FELT real...


The reason I started this thread is to ask:
How far do you think you can reach by using solely your mind?
Can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?
Can you make yourself stronger then physicaly possible, in normal conditions?
Can you reach a higher level of conciusness?
Do you even believe in all those things?
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  #2  
Old 2003-06-10, 14:31
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The thing I know from my expirience that you can actually make yourself faster if you want in certain moments. Or actually fully control a dream.
My answers:


Can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?
Yes, definitly.

Can you make yourself stronger then physicaly possible, in normal conditions?
Not stronger like a superman but yes, you can.

Can you reach a higher level of conciusness?
What do you mean by that? Sometimes when you are in dangerous situations you see in slowmotion. The same effect happens on certain other events.

Do you even believe in all those things?
Of chourse!
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  #3  
Old 2003-06-10, 16:09
Atresica Atresica is offline
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I often dream of flying, I found out that I can only fly if I think my way to something. One time I was flying, I put so many effort in thinking this, I reached incredable speeds.

I am convinced you can make yourself believe this isn;t real. I tend to do that sometimes, it gives a bit of a relaxed feeling

Yes, you can, if one combines the strenght of the body with the mind, you don't need to be superman to break a brick (see those Toalin Monks )

Define "higher conscience"

I certainly believe in this
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  #4  
Old 2003-06-10, 17:48
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I believe in an infinte amount of false realitys connecting into eachover, a soul in one world is a brain in higher one,

thus;
-=-=-=-

How far do you think you can reach by using solely your mind?


Anywhere and anywhen.
If this world is fakely induced by some device in a higher reality, then it is possible for the higher brain, our soul, to effect anything in this world.


Can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?


Define "real"

Can you make yourself stronger then physicaly possible, in normal conditions?


In "normal" conditions?
Probably not.
Its well knowen that the body can do amazing things when pushed.
Of course, if you can free yourself from the constrates of the "brain" in this level of reality, your soul (or higher brain), could probably allow you to do Matrix-style stuff here.

Can you reach a higher level of conciusness?

Can you wake up of this reality like you can wake up from a dream?
I believe so.
But Its doughtfull if you would remember it.
After all, we hardly remember dreams...

Do you even believe in all those things?

yes.





Darkflames diffinitions:

Brain = Goo-like stuff in your human head, acts as a paturn recogniton device.

Soul = A Brain, but on a higher level of existance.

Imagine Neos "real" brain outside of the matrix, compared to his "brain" in the matrix.

Reality = Whatever world you are in here and now.

A dream is reality from the inside.........
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  #5  
Old 2003-06-10, 17:58
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Well, by higher conciousness i mean:
Reaching a state, where nothing changed physically, yet EVERYTHING seems to be different.
What i'm talking about, is 'realizing' reality. Fully comprehending our world. A state of mind which is superior to those of most humans.
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  #6  
Old 2003-06-10, 19:54
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Same differences really.
To continue the Matrix-metephor, when Neo starts to see the "code" of the matrix, his brain is fully seeing the world as it really is.
He has woken up from the dream, and now sees how un-real it all really was.
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  #7  
Old 2003-06-10, 19:59
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How far do you think you can reach by using solely your mind?

Only to your actual physical potential.

Can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?

Yes but they still cannot affect what reality is, they still do not exist.

Can you make yourself stronger than physicaly possible, in normal conditions?

No, you answer your own question. If it's not physicaly possible it's not possible. You will only succeed in overestimating your own ability and getting hurt.

Can you reach a higher level of conciusness?

I can't answer that.

Do you even believe in all those things?

No.

As for what Xakep_INC said:

You can make yourself faster, but that new speed is really your full potential that you were not using before.
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  #8  
Old 2003-06-10, 20:55
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Thats 100% true verbly, but you know its not what he meant

After all, the universe isnt expanding, by the same logic.
(after all, whats it expanding into? more universe...so that should have been part of the definition to start with with)

Quote:
Can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?

Yes but they still cannot affect what reality is, they still do not exist.
Does a dream exist?
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  #9  
Old 2003-06-10, 21:13
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Yes, dreams exist, but they exist as dreams. Dreams themselves can do nothing but suggest.
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  #10  
Old 2003-06-10, 21:57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
Thats 100% true verbly, but you know its not what he meant

After all, the universe isnt expanding, by the same logic.
(after all, whats it expanding into? more universe...so that should have been part of the definition to start with with)



Does a dream exist?
You will really get nothing by these overphylosophied (lol) questions. Of chourse a dream exists! It's a picture projected to us by our brain. Though we CANNOT feel something while we sleeping, and there are many things that are clues for sleeping. My personal thought is that the matrix theory stuff is B U L L S * * T. You CAN make yourself faster, stronger, and even more concious. BUT this will usually be in the limits of the current physical abbilities of your body. EVEN if you get something over that you can be seriously hurt.

Please don't understand me falsely, I use caps to mark the important words, and not to shout :P

EDIT
Please DO NOT start arguments with someone here. NOONE has a point, it's just opinions, opinions can never be 100% true, if they were they would be facts!

EDIT 2
The things that are actually can be felt well inside a dream are emotions. Belive me, when you fear inside a dream, it is usually much more frightening than in the real world.
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  #11  
Old 2003-06-11, 00:08
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I do believe you can become stronger or something if you really believe you are.
The mind is very powerful.
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"Ignorance is bliss" (Cypher, 'The Matrix')
"If ignorance is bliss then wipe the smile off my face" (Rage Against The Machine)
"Ignorance IS NOT bliss! How is your credit card history?" (Banner)
"I find bliss in Ignorance" (Linkin Park - One Step Closer)
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  #12  
Old 2003-06-11, 11:07
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I believe dreams exist.
I believe they are a change to have a look at our subconcious (which is an invaluable thing)

This made me thing of something...
Did you ever have a dream, where you realized this was a dream, and not real life?
It happened to me once.
And in the moment when i realized i was in a dream, everything faded away, and i woke up....
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  #13  
Old 2003-06-11, 12:09
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Yeah, it's called lucid dreaming. The fun thing is that you can decide your own course in a dream (me, I often fly )
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Old 2003-06-11, 14:02
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Quote:
Originally posted by DedalousDiggle
Yes, dreams exist, but they exist as dreams. Dreams themselves can do nothing but suggest.
Yes, but surely you have had a dream and you havnt "knowen" its a dream while you are dreaming?
I mean, the dream seams "real" when you are having it no?
You only know its a dream afterwards.

In that case, what makes you so sure this world is real?
==
Xakep_INC - O_o
It was a simple literaly question, in preperation for the next.
Im trying to open up some closed minds.

Since when did I say anything was 100% true?
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  #15  
Old 2003-06-11, 14:05
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
This made me thing of something...
Did you ever have a dream, where you realized this was a dream, and not real life?
Yes, twice I think. First time I was busy explaining to a clone of myself it's a dream....
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"Ignorance is bliss" (Cypher, 'The Matrix')
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  #16  
Old 2003-06-11, 14:53
DedalousDiggle DedalousDiggle is offline
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Quote:
Yes, but surely you have had a dream and you haven't "known" it's a dream while you are dreaming?
Ofcourse, but they are still just dreams whether you know it or not.

Quote:
In that case, what makes you so sure this world is real?
It is real because this is the only reality I know.
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  #17  
Old 2003-06-11, 16:41
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I just *KNOW* we already had a thread like this.. I remember DF posting this type of words.. With Silverfish and Medur and Atre.. yeah.. don't remember what it was called like..

But I guess, when you have nothing else to post about you gotta recycle the same stuff over and over again.
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  #18  
Old 2003-06-11, 16:45
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*Can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?*

Never tried, but I dont think so. When you try to convince yourself, you perfectly know that those are wrong things, and you'll nevver remove from your subconscious the origin of those things.

*Can you make yourself stronger then physicaly possible, in normal conditions?*
That's already been answered, the answer is in the question, however I think there are possibilities for strengths that are superior to what bones may normally be able to carry. It involve either miracles, when you only receive that ability, or those may be self-acquired abilities with kinda demoniac stufffs, but wtf is the point in risking your mental and physic health when you can rent a bulldozer

*Can you reach a higher level of conciusness?*
There is no higher levels o consciousness for humans than the one they are in when they simply realize they think and exist in that world.
Other modes of consciousness, via dreams or drugs (could be extended to wvirtual worlds, but /me likes them so I wont expend), are imo mainly made with illusions. Illusions to be stronger, to have better abilities or to do amazing stuffs, but still illusions.
A better knowledge and understanding state, imo you reach it only after your death, but let's not hurry we'll have eternity to enjoy it ^^


Well I've already several times realized I dreamed, and however continued the dream, and it was funny to notice as I actually wasnt free : I tried to achieve something, willing the dream to conform to what I planned, but anyway it was stronger than me I failed in doing what I did and had to begin again. When I tried to really bbreak that failure loop I woke up
Nah actually dreams are extremly different from reality : you cant wonder wether you dream, without IMMEDIATELY knowing it's only a dream. No matter how I feared in a nightmare, no matter how realist it was, as soon as I wondered wether it may be a dream, it appeared to me in its truth : fuzzy and illogical, too far from even the weirdest scene of the reality.
Oh, and I dont believe one minute to a matrix-succession reality. there is the reality we're all in, dreams where we can appproach some mysterious features of our spirit, and the "beyond" where all eternal and spiritual stuff is. Our minds are connected to that physical world, but in the other one they're plain and full, not again dependencies of a higher reality.


Argh it may be a really dumb idea to throw myself into matrix-style philosophical discusions just the day before my philo bac.....I'm going straight into the wall, I feel it >_<
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Old 2003-06-11, 17:09
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And about the question 'can you convince yourself of things that aren't real?'

Well the answer to that is known actaully.
Yes, you can.

Surely you've heard stories of people who were so convinced they were going to die (from religious reasons) that they died for no apparent reason!

Or, there was an experiment they did on a convict.
The prison guards blindfolded him, told him they were going to cut his wrist. But in reality, they just poured hot water on his wrist. The prisoner felt the pain of the heat, and thought that he was cut. Then he felt the water flow, and thought that that was his blood flowing out of the wound.
Several minutes later, the prisoner died.
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Old 2003-06-11, 17:36
Atresica Atresica is offline
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but from what did he die? I presume a heart attack or something? Quite possible.

You also hear pleanty of stories about people who were told they were going to die (because of a decease or something), but manage to stay alive, just because they refuced to die.
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Old 2003-06-11, 20:09
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Well those stories are interesting but kinda out of the plot :
that's not people that convince themselves there, they are convinced by others, I hadnt understood the question like that. If people affirm you lots of things, of course you finally are sure they exist.

But on those death cases, that's not the same thing : people werent just convinced that they were dead, imo they ACTUALLY died because of fear (cardiac attack yep) and stuff. And it's not because people tell you that you're going to die that you will, so there people were just partially wrong on the disease, and thanks to his will but also to the normal resisstance of his body the person survived.

The case would be more impressive if a person got a cancer just because someone convinced him that he was ill. It'd be proof of great powers for the human mind.
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Old 2003-06-11, 20:20
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I realised that I was dream while dreaming quite alot of times. And I could actually do alots of stuff in the dream. But some things were just keeping on failng. And when I tried again and again I woke up.

There was a nightmare once, that I had, and I understood somehow it's a dream. It was funny then looking all the scary things dissapearing and stuff I made them do.

Although some things are quite impossobile to do in a dream. For example, you couldn't go to another city by flying like neo :P. A dream often reminds me of a computer game, where there are cheats, but each "level" has some major limitations that could not be overridden.
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Old 2003-06-11, 21:18
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Slot#1 : it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to hide from a monster that pursues you. The monster will ALWAYS find you, wherever you go
Slot#2 : when you try to jump over an obstacle, you'll always exploded yourself against that obstacle.

...

But maybe for others it's different, is it ?
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Old 2003-06-11, 21:20
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Yeah youre right, but that is when you not realise its a dream.
I tried to escape a zombie kind guy once in a dream. He turned out to be pretty fast running although he looked like he had only one leg
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Old 2003-06-11, 23:05
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Quote:
Originally posted by DedalousDiggle
It is real because this is the only reality I know.
Yes, but *while you were dreaming*, THAT was the only reality you knew as well.
If you were in that dream and someone asked you:

"Is this a dream?"

you could equaly have said:

"This is real, because its the only reality I know!"
-
Yet it wouldnt have been!
If you can have no memorys of the real world during a dream, what makes you sure there isnt a "realer" world you cant remember in this "reality"?
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