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  #26  
Old 2014-02-18, 01:27
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I am finally finding something out for Time Commando. Unfortunately, I can only decipher the files on my laptop that I am using right now. My computer does not like Time Commando for some reason. Maybe it is because it is interfering with the HQR's from either LBA 1 or 2. That is what I think anyways. Anyways, I am deciphering the colors of sprites. The virus bar on the top is originally red, yellow, orange, and even green. Now, the bar has shades of pink.

I am finally figuring something out. It might take awhile, but I am getting there. I know that this forum is for LBA 2, so I should just try to keep my Time Commando files to myself.

It just lets myself know that I can somehow contribute to the MagicBall.Net, whether it may be files, or others.
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  #27  
Old 2014-02-20, 16:23
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Zink, your tips are working! I have already deciphered 16 different entries in the Time Commando Resource HQR file. It works! It just takes quite a bit of time. Honestly, I found 16 files in a matter of less than an hour. I found 4 sound files, which are wave files that play at certain points in the game. I also found 6 palletes and pictures that follow. Technically, these count up to 18, but one of the entries contains two wave files in them. I don't understand why this entry only has two, why not more? Perhaps the files are located in other entries.

Anyways, it works! I know I keep saying that, but this is finally a time that I am actually working for the Magic Ball Net, and I am finding things that could be useful for someone. I should do the same thing for LBA 2.

Still, good luck.
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  #28  
Old 2016-12-14, 04:41
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Originally Posted by MrQuetch View Post
I just made this in spare time.
This.

THIS IS

THE BEST POST

YOU HAVE EVER MADE

IN YOUR LIFE, MR.QUETCH

<3
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  #29  
Old 2016-12-14, 23:06
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
This.

THIS IS

THE BEST POST

YOU HAVE EVER MADE

IN YOUR LIFE, MR.QUETCH

<3
This is old... I remember when I used to act more like a child, and that has definitely changed. I'm actually working right now, and am on lunch break currently. You know, you could make something like this just as easy I'm sure - it's all file manipulation.
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  #30  
Old 2016-12-15, 19:17
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  #31  
Old 2016-12-15, 21:20
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On lunch break yet again. I guess as long as you remember what you say, and that you're an adult about it, all will go well.
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  #32  
Old 2016-12-16, 00:25
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Apparently, you have plenty of time during lunch breaks. I suggest you make more "hot rabbibunnies in swimsuits" montages druing this period.
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  #33  
Old 2016-12-17, 21:04
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Apparently, you have plenty of time during lunch breaks. I suggest you make more "hot rabbibunnies in swimsuits" montages druing this period.
Remember that this was a few years ago, SpaceGuitarist - I don't have the same files at work. Besides, I've only got like 15 minutes for lunch break. I did not have a consistent job until just recently.

You know if you really wanted, it's not hard to do the same for your behalf.

You have to hex the files in order to change the color of polys, and then save the file as under a different name with the same lm2 extension.
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  #34  
Old 2016-12-18, 05:01
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Originally Posted by MrQuetch View Post
You have to hex the files in order to change the color of polys, and then save the file as under a different name with the same lm2 extension.
Is this also possible with Time Commando, MrQuetch? Namely the console versions? Because if that's the case, then I would definitely like to try.
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  #35  
Old 2016-12-20, 21:12
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Is this also possible with Time Commando, MrQuetch? Namely the console versions? Because if that's the case, then I would definitely like to try.
Although the formats are similar from PC to console, they are NOT exactly the same as far as I know. Similar, but different.

I'll be honest, I'd love to edit the models for Time Commando and play as Stanley in blue instead of yellow, but that'd need shifting the hues of his texture because his entire suit is a texture, NOT a color.

Actually though, each texture has a polygon color under it, you can play the game with the textures OFF, but I never do that because the textures bring out more detail in the game's overall style. This way, you can see the poly color and not poly texture, but I guess you could change poly color, but then you'd need to change textures if you want to play with a different colored texture.

I suggest you ask Battler, Zink, and Xesf, because they know much more about how the files are stored, and how they work, especially for LBA. Not much work seems to have been done for Time Commando yet, unfortunately.

By hexing though, I've figured out some of the entries for Time Commando in the LBA Package Editor - which can open up HQR files, and actually gave a list to Xesf so he can add them in the Package Editor list of indices.

Unfortunately, I never discovered anything too special, but I learned that Time Commando uses the exact same sound effect and image formats like the LBA games do. That being said, it should be similar for Alone in the Dark, but that uses PAK files instead of HQR files. Additionally, with all of this being said, you should be able to open up the models and view them with animations if they have the same / similar format as the LBA and AITD series do.

Xesf has a lot of custom programs on his sacred carrot website - you should check it out if you haven't yet.

So, it should be possible to edit the models for TC, and play the game with your modifications, but there is only one entry in an HQR for TC that contains the models - it's strange because LBA1 and 2 have HQR's that hold the models and animations separately from each other. For TC, they are all compressed in a single entry in an HQR - which really sucks, and I don't know how to 'uncompress' it even more (it's the same story for the hex that I've done for AITD, you should also check that thread if you haven't yet). Actually, AITD's PAKs' are more structured like the LBA's HQRs'.

I wish there was an entry for each model and animation in TC like LBA, but TC seems to have been compressed a 'second' time, and Xesf would know how that's stored I'm sure. Maybe he'll find a way to get those files 'uncompressed', and if he does, we can edit them like the LBA files.

I wanted to edit the models for TC like a year ago, but I could never figure out where what was located after extracting the entry which has all models an animations - it's too big to tell where anything is with the extra compression. Even then, if you DID hex a part of the code, you wouldn't be able to tell what you switched, and if you managed to switch something, a group of things would all be edited from changing one thing of binary code.

For example, in AITD, I changed one value, and it moved a group of vertices from Emily's head to the right - hand side of the screen.

Sorry for the big paragraphs, but I hoped this helps some with how it works. Xesf, I'm sure will be able to figure it out and have an executable to edit the files in the future.
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  #36  
Old 2016-12-24, 02:04
Wesker Wesker is offline
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Originally Posted by MrQuetch View Post
Although the formats are similar from PC to console, they are NOT exactly the same as far as I know. Similar, but different.

I'll be honest, I'd love to edit the models for Time Commando and play as Stanley in blue instead of yellow, but that'd need shifting the hues of his texture because his entire suit is a texture, NOT a color.

Actually though, each texture has a polygon color under it, you can play the game with the textures OFF, but I never do that because the textures bring out more detail in the game's overall style. This way, you can see the poly color and not poly texture, but I guess you could change poly color, but then you'd need to change textures if you want to play with a different colored texture.

I suggest you ask Battler, Zink, and Xesf, because they know much more about how the files are stored, and how they work, especially for LBA. Not much work seems to have been done for Time Commando yet, unfortunately.

By hexing though, I've figured out some of the entries for Time Commando in the LBA Package Editor - which can open up HQR files, and actually gave a list to Xesf so he can add them in the Package Editor list of indices.

Unfortunately, I never discovered anything too special, but I learned that Time Commando uses the exact same sound effect and image formats like the LBA games do. That being said, it should be similar for Alone in the Dark, but that uses PAK files instead of HQR files. Additionally, with all of this being said, you should be able to open up the models and view them with animations if they have the same / similar format as the LBA and AITD series do.

Xesf has a lot of custom programs on his sacred carrot website - you should check it out if you haven't yet.

So, it should be possible to edit the models for TC, and play the game with your modifications, but there is only one entry in an HQR for TC that contains the models - it's strange because LBA1 and 2 have HQR's that hold the models and animations separately from each other. For TC, they are all compressed in a single entry in an HQR - which really sucks, and I don't know how to 'uncompress' it even more (it's the same story for the hex that I've done for AITD, you should also check that thread if you haven't yet). Actually, AITD's PAKs' are more structured like the LBA's HQRs'.

I wish there was an entry for each model and animation in TC like LBA, but TC seems to have been compressed a 'second' time, and Xesf would know how that's stored I'm sure. Maybe he'll find a way to get those files 'uncompressed', and if he does, we can edit them like the LBA files.

I wanted to edit the models for TC like a year ago, but I could never figure out where what was located after extracting the entry which has all models an animations - it's too big to tell where anything is with the extra compression. Even then, if you DID hex a part of the code, you wouldn't be able to tell what you switched, and if you managed to switch something, a group of things would all be edited from changing one thing of binary code.

For example, in AITD, I changed one value, and it moved a group of vertices from Emily's head to the right - hand side of the screen.

Sorry for the big paragraphs, but I hoped this helps some with how it works. Xesf, I'm sure will be able to figure it out and have an executable to edit the files in the future.
Thanks for the long and detailed answer, MrQuetch.

I'm asking this because the Sega Saturn version of Time Commando is a mess with wrong and inconsistent color choices. Stanley for example has his face in the correct skin color but then his neck and hands are in a different brownish-like color which doesn't match his face. And many enemies are also like that.

Now that you mentioned about the models using textures, I noticed the textured parts in the models are all displayed in the correct color, but then the flat shaded ones have wrong colors so maybe it's not that difficult to make them match the correct colors in the textures.

Some pictures to show what I'm referring to.











Funny thing is, in the credits scene the Stanley model and some others appear with the correct matching skin colors! While some other character/enemy models show up way worse than they do in the game.
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  #37  
Old 2016-12-25, 01:10
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I definitely see what you mean, Wesker. Some of those screenshots are not too bad.

However, I can definitely say that I really dislike the way the "portal" turned out in the second screenshot - they could've at least got the colors right, and for that matter, it's supposed to be a lighter blue, not darker!

Although it's probably limitation-wise, the virus bar literally looks like peperoni pizza to me! I'm not sure if I like that or not. I like pizza, but if a virus were infected in it, then the pizza would be out of the question, and in my trash bin.

Speaking of the polygon colors and textures, did you know that the polygons in all of Fred's games have a, "type"? There are certain ways in which polygons can be rendered, and each has their own style / look. It is possible to have the polygons properly translated, as the polygons from LBA1 PC to LBA1 PSX looks identical besides the 'jaggies' and extra hud - this is a good port as far as all of the resources are concerned.

But, it looks like whomever ported Time Commando to the Sega Saturn, didn't do a very good job. It looks like the main problem is the polygon types, which should've been an easy fix, unless the Saturn couldn't handle those calculations and the game was meant to look like that. Or maybe the game's settings were lowered (some games on most systems do that, which is stupid because if a game is meant for a specific system - it should already be tested to work with it's highest specs for said console). Whatever, sometimes features have their purposes...

It's strange as far as TC is concerned, because like LBA1, TC was in fact ported to PSX as well. Both games look identical to their PC versions, except for maybe very minor details from porting over. In LBA1 PSX, the load screen comes up each time you go to another scene - it wasn't like that for the PC version. Although I have TC for PSX, I haven't checked / remembered if there was a load screen - it might've been what the PC had (the stop-watch).

Interesting enough, those weren't the only two games ported. Although Fred worked on the first AITD and wanted to make the other two, the team wanted to take it in a different direction. So, Fred and some people from the team went of to create Adeline. The second AITD (not by Fred anymore) ended up being ported to the PSX also, along with full textured models, which I find much more enjoyable then the simple colors. The PC version didn't even have textures, except for the backgrounds finally having some animations. I too, have PSX game, as well as the other two.

I can't play my LBA1 on PSX though because it's supposedly 'burned' on a disk, and the PSX doesn't recognize the LBA1 bootleg disc. So, I can only play LBA1 on PC. Oh well, sometimes life sucks rocks.

So, as far as the polygon types are concerned in TC, they could've got it to look like the PC version, but nope... Didn't happen. If I'm wrong about something, just correct me.

As far as I know about the types, there are: (Currently Checking)

Edit:
-----

0 - Flat ( which is what most of the models are using in the screenshots you showed me )
1 - Copper ( don't know yet ( might be a vertical gradient ))
2 - Bopper ( don't know yet ( might be a horizontal gradient ))
3 - Marble ( don't know yet )
4 - Tele ( don't know yet )
5 - Tras ( don't know yet )
6 - Trame ( don't know yet )
7 - Gouraud ( smooth transition from light to dark ( shading, which should be there ))
8 - Dither ( different hues of a color per pixel in random positions via model to screen space )

Note: These are found in the LBA1 source code. But, seeing as all of the work (most of it anyways) was done by Fred, chances are the other games have similar code / renderings.
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Last edited by MrQuetch; 2016-12-25 at 01:22.
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  #38  
Old 2016-12-25, 03:09
Wesker Wesker is offline
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MrQuetch, the problem with the Sega Saturn is the rendering. The console doesn't render polygonal graphics in triangles like the PlayStation does, but in quads, a less used standard than triangles. So that forces you to readapt the polygon models to similar ones rendered in quads, hence why you may notice those models are "different" to the ones in the PC and PlayStation versions, as they are more bulkier as a result. This happens with most 3D polygon games that are multiplataform and shared by the Sega Saturn and either the PC or the PlayStation, it was a norm because of the stantard used. And of course, this is applied to the polygon graphics of the Sega Saturn version of Time Commando.

Another big issue in the Sega Saturn version of Time Commando is the lack of shading, at all. The PC and PlayStation version have a lot of shading with help to "disguise" the combination of textured parts and flat parts that the models do. But in the Sega Saturn version there was NO shading at all programmed so that's why the models look like that, very crude. It was possible to program shading in the Sega Saturn, some other games like for example the Resident Evil conversion managed to do it, but it seems it was a complicated task because of the dual CPU-GPU architecture of the console and the tricky hardware the system had, and clearly Time Commando for the Sega Saturn suffers because of this omission. In fact, I noticed that those differences in skin color present through the characters' bodies ARE ALSO in the PC and PlayStation versions, but they are less evident because of the shading which manages to properly integrate each other together. On the Sega Saturn version they couldn't get the shading working and instead of properly redesign the colors to fit to the new "crude" situation of this version, they simply left it like the other versions are.

The Sega Saturn version was not programmed by Adeline Software, but by another French company known as Virtual Studio. This company was formed from the ashes of Loriciel, which was a noted French company from the 80s/early 90s which went bankrupt in 1993. Under their new form of Virtual Studio and keeping most of the staff that Loriciel had, they went to develop some games for other bigger companies, for example the Smurfs games for Infogrames, and also this conversion of Time Commando for the Sega Saturn which was released in March 1998, that is, when the entire Adeline staff had already moved to form No Cliché under the ownership of Sega. I bet neither Fred nor ayone from the former Adeline staff had anything to do with it (I have always wanted to ask Fred about this but he probably won't know anything) and I can also guess this was all agreed between Delphine Software, the parent comany of Adeline, and Acclaim which was the company interested in having a Sega Saturn version developed and published. It was only published in Japan by the Japanese branch of Acclaim though, the North American and European one wasn't interested (by 1998, the Sega Saturn was pretty much doomed outside Japan, where it enjoyed a better status and still had many games released until 1999/2000).

I'm thinking that either these guys of Virtual Studio had very little expertise on the Sega Saturn or they were simply rushed to release the game in this status, as it has a very incomplete feel. There's even a major fatal bug in stage 8, the future one, which has always happened to me playing the game up to that point and have never able to elude. The only way I have been able to play stage 9 and finish the game has been through passwords, as this version use the exact same passwords of the PlayStation version since this version is largely based on it. It has the same title screen menus and options (which are different in the PC version) and it also shares the same modifications the PlayStation version did compared to the PC version based on game interface and else. The framerate is also very jerky (this usually moves between 10-20fps and suffers a lot when there's a lot of enemies around) and there's also some sound irregularities concerning wrong voice pitches and lousy MIDI music conversion (and this was clearly lazyness from the conversion team because the Sega Saturn has GREAT music/sound hardware, of better quality than the one of the PlayStation in fact).

To sum up, a total mess of a conversion. But I like a lot both Time Commando and the Sega Saturn, which is one of my favorite consoles. I wish it would have also received a conversion of Little Big Adventure, but alas this never happened. Little Big Adventure 2 was actually slated to appear in both the PlayStation and the Sega Saturn, but it never happened in either of them. The Sega Saturn proved well when it was developed correctly for it, for example the Resident Evil conversion I mentioned before. This has adapted graphics compared to the PlayStation conversion (again, because of the triangle/quad difference) but AT LEAST it has SHADING and everything looks pretty decent. Now that you mentioned about Alone in the Dark 2, there's also a Sega Saturn version of that one, with the same textured models of the PlayStation version and else, but it suffers similar problems to the Time Commando conversion: no shading and jerky framerate. But at least the color design choices in that one are correct, unlike Time Commando, and it also has some benefits compared to the PlayStation version: the Sega Saturn takes much less time to load (the PlayStation version is a huge pain in the ass in that regard, it's constatly loading whatever little thing you do and takes a lot) and it has MIDI music which isn't interrupted by cutscenes, unlike the PlayStation which features sample music from the PC CD version but it always stops when a cutscene appears and that breaks the game flow a lot. That version was developed by Infogrames itself, clearly by people who had problems programming the Sega Saturn but at least were a little wiser than Virtual Studio was when converting Time Commando.

So that's why at I would like to try to fix this color issue, and, even if there's still a lot of problems regarding the Sega Saturn conversion, at least there would be some consistency of the graphics and not that carnival color fest it has because of the different and wrong skin colors through the character bodies and else.

If you are curious enough, here you have some samples of the Sega Saturn version of Time Commando running and also a comparison with the PlayStation version (and some other games which follow after that).



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  #39  
Old 2017-01-07, 11:39
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Whoah, technical How did you get so much knowledge on the subject ?
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  #40  
Old 2018-01-30, 23:39
Wesker Wesker is offline
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Whoah, technical How did you get so much knowledge on the subject ?
I suppose you mean me? Sorry for getting back to you so late (more than a year later!), I went back to this thread just by coincidence and saw your message.

I'm an enthusiast of the Sega Saturn console (and most Sega systems in general) and since I like the Fred games a lot, you can pretty much guess. When I figured out many years ago that there was a rare Sega Saturn version of Time Commando released in Japan, I went and bought it straight away. This version has always been very undocummented because of its rarity, many people don't even know it actually exists.

So, when I got the game... boy, you had to see the reaction in my face about what I got. I would have loved to see a conversion of a great Fred game like Time Commando (and wished about the Little Big Adventure games to make the way to this system too as was intended, but sadly never happend) making its way in a great shape and form to one of my favourite systems of all time... only to find this travesty of a port which is almost unbearable/unplayable.

It's that bad, and not because the console is difficult to program for, which it's, but also because the porting team (French company Virtual Studio) didn't even try. I mean, the Sega Saturn got many games graphically/technically more advanced than Time Commando faring out way better in the console. This one is clearly the prime example of how not to code for the systems and worst of all, release a game like this. It even has a fatal bug in level 8 which prevents you from completing the game! The only way you can actually finish the Sega Saturn version is by jumping to level 9 straight by password (which you can get from the PlayStation version since the Sega Saturn version shares identical passwords with that version). Lame.

Anyway, of course I have some expertise in the technical aspects of the Sega Saturn since I'm so fond of this console and therefore analyzed the many issues of its conversion of Time Commando during all the years I have had this version and played it throughout. It's not like I'm a programming/coding expert, quite on the contrary, but have informed a lot about how the console behaves and what's reflected about this in this particular version of the game, and well... that's how I tried to explain it to MrQuetch long ago when the topic arise, since he said something about changing polygon colors and wanted to see if that was also possible in the Sega Saturn of Time Commando to fix the mess of the miscolored graphics it has, which is one of its many bad issues.
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  #41  
Old 2018-02-01, 04:00
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Hi, there guys!

I apologize too. A LOT has changed within the past year... I have a busier schedule now, and am currently doing work and school at the same time - while working on portfolio. I've been learning a lot more now, and I still plan to come back to this very soon.

Now that I've learned more C, I have an idea of what to do with the files and programs... I may even re-write some things. Still not sure exactly.
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