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  #51  
Old 2013-01-13, 17:52
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INSIDE KASIA'S MIND: The perfect internet forum!

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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #52  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:01
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Well you did say you would clean the forum.
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  #53  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
But you also "like her in many many ways" , right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
Sometimes you're so silly, it's sweet.
... sshh! that's the idea ...
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  #54  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Well you did say you would clean the forum.
... Yep, that's where the idea came from, too. I am sort of seeing pattern now.

( http://forum.magicball.net/showpost....9&postcount=16 )
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #55  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:08
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I think I can see a correlation between maturity and those who answered no.
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  #56  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
... sshh! that's the idea ...
So Polaris is trying to win Kasia by annoying her with bad pnctuation and then suddenly going all sensitive area talk, and you do this? How fun...

At kindergarten they said "teasing girls is asking for kisses"
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  #57  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echomote View Post
I think I can see a correlation between maturity and those who answered no.
Then you see wrong
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  #58  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Then you see wrong
^ This.
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  #59  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:24
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What problem?
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  #60  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
So may I know what is wrong with me?

It's science....didn't you have biology?


(Sorry )
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  #61  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
Telling Echomote that he's wrong - what for?
Because I expressed my opinion.
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  #62  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
You should have said "I think you're wrong" or "In my opinion you're wrong".
But it can not be mistaken from a fact, so in my opinion it was obvious
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  #63  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:36
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No, he is just wrong ;-D

But anything that is not a fact, must be an opinion, right?
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  #64  
Old 2013-01-13, 18:44
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How can I proove someones maturity?
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  #65  
Old 2013-01-13, 19:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
If you can't prove it, it's not a certain thing.
If it's not a certain thing, you can't be sure it's true.
If you can't be sure it's true, you can't say Echomote IS wrong.
You can just say that you think so.


Edit:
+ Actually you can prove it, but you'd have to know us and our situation in real life.
I can say that actually. It is a matter of efficiency. Otherwise you would have to include "this is my opinion" in almost every sentence.

For example you would have to say "SgK is a special case, i think". Since it has not been confirmed by two scientists that he is.

And SGK would have to say " I think I have lost my interest", since...has it been proven that he did?

It is SO obviously an opinion that it is not needed to include it.
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  #66  
Old 2013-01-13, 19:03
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But Echomote is still wrong.
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  #67  
Old 2013-01-13, 19:07
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Quote:
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LOL, those examples!

But why do you think he is wrong? You HAVEN'T given us your reasoning...
Didn't you have biology?
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  #68  
Old 2013-01-13, 20:24
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..."it should be considered normal already."

That's an interesting thing to consider - what makes a sexual orientation normal? What does normal mean? I don't have an issue with gay people as people either (it doesn't really cross my mind) - they should be treated as kindly as anyone else. But even if sexuality moves across a spectrum, I'm not sure from a non-political or emotional perspective whether extreme/exclusive homosexuality is no different to or 'the same as' a more exclusively heterosexual orientation. I'm also asking in particular because aesexuality has been explored a little more seriously recently, and even though it's such a 'benign' orientation, the average sexual person still finds it impossible to accept (and assumes it's repression/a result of abuse or 'issues'/a coverup, etc.) I know an aesexual, however, and as far as I can see there are no radical 'issues': they just don't have a drive for the act of sex. It's funny the extreme and intolerant reactions that kind of orientation gets! And then there's the ancient world, where women (girls rather) were married much, much younger and pederasty (a homosexual relationship between an adult male and a boy/younger male) was often considered an ideal and not a crime. I wonder what will be normal in a hundred years time?

Btw - I'm not being argumentative at all or actually making any particular point. This is just such a grey area sometimes! :-)
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  #69  
Old 2013-01-13, 21:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
I am rational and base my opinion on scientific facts. No emotions involved.
How much do you know about genetics / behaviourism / evolutionism?

+ how can you say such thing about me knowing NOTHING about who I am and what my other views are...?

I'd like to think I know a great deal about evolution and biology in general, despite not being a biologist by education. I had two years worth of anthropology in uni on various courses and a year of sociology. I subscribe to Scientific American to stay on top of new discoveries and I've read quite a few books on evolution, and pardon the pun "descent of man".

I can't honestly treat a person who just says "NO" as their answer to this issue as rational, because there so far is no evidence to support a "NO", while there is mountain of studies to support a "Why not?", or even "It's none of your business" view.

Even more, all the views I've heard that are against children being adopted by same sex couples stem from world views based on "traditional values" and irrational social conservatism.

And as I in general blame all that's wrong in the world on the irrational, you're getting some of it for not acting like a rational person!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
But why the first thing he says is "things are going bad here because of people like you". This is offensive for me.
I used a common phrase that's usually being used as a joke, so that sentence was a bit of trying to be funny on my part.

You being all offended though, I might retract it being a joke and say it for real this time...
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  #70  
Old 2013-01-13, 21:57
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So because someone has a different opinion than you he or she is not rational?

I always thought you had clever replies o_O

You react like one of the irrational traditionalists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
I'd like to think I know a great deal about evolution and biology in general, despite not being a biologist by education. I had two years worth of anthropology in uni on various courses and a year of sociology. I subscribe to Scientific American to stay on top of new discoveries and I've read quite a few books on evolution, and pardon the pun "descent of man".

I can't honestly treat a person who just says "NO" as their answer to this issue as rational, because there so far is no evidence to support a "NO", while there is mountain of studies to support a "Why not?", or even "It's none of your business" view.

Even more, all the views I've heard that are against children being adopted by same sex couples stem from world views based on "traditional values" and irrational social conservatism.

And as I in general blame all that's wrong in the world on the irrational, you're getting some of it for not acting like a rational person!
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  #71  
Old 2013-01-13, 22:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
Oh hey Jesse, that's you who is speaking, or you've turned into "Kasia guide" again?
No, this time it was my own opinion.

Just because the world is in a great emancipation movement, doesn't mean that there cannot be valid arguments for restraining some of that freedom.

There are two invalid arguments: the argument based on conservatism and the argument based on the current wave (progressism?) The only valid base is experience or your own viewpoints.
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  #72  
Old 2013-01-13, 22:26
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I know kids who had no problem at all with gay parents, and I know some who had identity issues due to missing a mother/father figure.

But the point is, kids should have the right to be raised with their original parents. Everything is possible these days because we come from a very restricted religiously based society and we want to break free, so everything should be free! But hey, maybe we should actually not put our own rights as the most important, but the kids rights in question?

Last edited by Neko; 2013-01-13 at 22:47.
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  #73  
Old 2013-01-13, 22:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
So because someone has a different opinion than you he or she is not rational?

I always thought you had clever replies o_O

You react like one of the irrational traditionalists.
Let me spell it out then:

Person "B" has a view "Alpha" that has no basis in reality and is based on a complex tangled mess of fear, tradition and conservatism.

Person "C" shows to share the same view "Alpha".

Since there's no other way for person "C" to arive to view "Alpha", it is logical to conclude that person "C" shares the same traits "B" has, that are necessary to arrive at view "Alpha".


Now, based on what Kasia said later I still think she is exactly that! Being irrational.

Let's review what I think she thinks now:

A) It's obvious to a person who studied biology that same sex couples should not adopt children.

I can only assume you refer to the fact that homosexuality by definition cannot lead to sharing genetic traits. Therefore you think homosexuality itself does not derive from biology - because it cannot be transmitted, but is a social trait. This would lead me to think that you assign value based on a thing being "natural" or "unnatural", thus labelling homosexuality as bad, and by extension the practice of adopting children by homosexual parents as equally bad.

The evidence on the matter is exactly the opposite, homosexuality has been observed and documented in around 1500 species so far ranging from worms to mammals. Therefore it cannot be a human social mannersim and falls out of the "natural-good unnatural-bad" classification that I assume you hold. I have coined a hypothesis that it is a form of population control. Whatever you may think it's evolutionary reason to exist is, it's biological basis is an established fact.

B) Children raised by same sex parents do not receive a proper balance of male and female role models which leads to them being at a disadvantaged position in life, compared to other children.

Studies on the matter show that on average children adopted by same sex couples get better grades, are generally better taken care of, are less inclined to get in trouble with the law, are less violent and more open. This shows clearly that male and female role models are not as important in the childs development as a steady, nurturing environment.

C) Children adopted by same sex couples will be bullied at school.

This is not really very coherent, it's not the fault of the victim that they have been harmed. Or do you also think that women who get raped, get raped because they where asking for it by strutting around half naked in bad neighbourhoods? A view I myself find offensive not only to women but also to men, likened to instinct driven beasts that jump at the mere scent of raw meet.

If children do get picked on for being raised by homosexual parents, and it doesn't happen as often as you seem to think, the fault lies with the bullies' parent's, the school system and the society in general, not with the notion of adoption by same sex parents.
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  #74  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:06
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Ah there we have a normal good reply.

The population control theory is interesting.
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  #75  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:18
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Not all kids who are raised by gay parents are bullied at school. Hell, homosexuality is becoming more and more widely accepted all over the world. Peoples views on the topic are changing. I've never witnesses nor heard of a child being bullied at any school I've gone to due to the fact that they had gay parents.

However. I was bullied and beat at school from the time I was in pre-school up until I graduated highschool, because I came from a struggling family, and I wasn't pretty enough to be popular, and because kids thought it was funny to poke fun at me over the death of my father.
But not once did I ever hear anyone being picked on because of gay parents.
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