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  #76  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
I was bullied because of being an atheist.
I had no religious views in school.. so nobody could bully me about that.
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  #77  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia
1. About a raped woman: if she actually WAS strutting around half naked, then I'd consider that as partially her fault, yes.
So if I'm in my swim suit because i want to go swimming and a guy sees me and rapes me.. its partially my fault because i was headed to the pool in my swim suit?
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  #78  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:36
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Jasiek's reply > Kasia's.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CS2x
And then there's the ancient world, where women (girls rather) were married much, much younger (....) was often considered an ideal and not a crime.
Damn, I was born in the wrong time.
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  #79  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
Of course not.
But if you were wandering around some slums wearing a miniskirt, fishnet stockings and a half-transparent t-shirt with a bra visible underneath... then yes.
I see where your coming from.. but if I want to walk around in a skirt where my ass is hanging out then the only thing I should be worried about is getting arrested for indecient exposure.. I shouldn't have to look over my shoulder to make sure some sick minded psycho isnt going to rip my vagina open.

Just because a woman shows her ass, doesn't mean its an invitation.
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  #80  
Old 2013-01-13, 23:57
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Yes, a portion of society is like this. Unfortunately.

But let's not loose focus on the main topic shall we.
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  #81  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:00
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I don't want to get in the middle of the arguement.. but you Kasia and Jasiek feel free to continue
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  #82  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
You think they care if it's an invitation or not?
No, it's like Jasiek said. They just see a perfect victim of their sick passions. Like a hungry dog seeing a rare steak.
Again, I understand where your coming from. But obviously that does not make it right.
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  #83  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
Agreed.
I do support all kinds of liberal views that concern an individual. Euthanasia? Fine. Abortion? Fine (I don't see a fetus as a human). Homosexual relationships? Fine as well.
But everything that can influence other people (the child in that case) should be very carefully analyzed, before it's legalized...
And for me, if there is at least one rational justification of the fact that such life situation might be bad for a child, then it's enough already.
This seems to heavily contradict your previous statements suggesting you need a background in biology and evolution and attend "lectures" to understand why same sex couples shouldn't have children.

Even it seems fine on the surface, the argument is not practical. If you continue that line of thinking you might conclude that heterosexual couples should not have children because of a vast amount of child abuse going on. Or that people should not get involved with other people due to spouse abuse. Or that we shouldn't go outside because of car accidents. Furthermore we are influenced by so many factors in life that each and everyone of them cannot be analysed, and such a policy would mean a de facto end to all adoption.

The adoption of children by anyone, should be considered on a case by case basis. The only verifiable, empirical and practical information you can take into consideration when a person or persons are requesting to adopt a child is if they have a history of violence or abuse, are capable of providing a relatively stable environment and can provide educational opportunities. Otherwise your administration will be prone to being unobjective, irrational and consequently unfair.
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  #84  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:34
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Streggy's objectives for this thread: 75% COMPLETED.

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Originally Posted by StreGGy View Post
I hope this thread will stay on topic

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I'm placing some rich soil for new randomness/epicness, which I hope won't grow.

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I also ask you to respect other's opinion on such a delicate matter.

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Originally Posted by StreGGy View Post
Discuss, MBN, discuss.
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  #85  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
I don't have anything to add.
As far as it's interesting to read Jasiek's explanations, I don't like to talk with people who don't accept other points of view, or try to make them seem not legit.
I'm not denying Jasiek's arguments, I don't say he is wrong. I'm just trying to explain why I think in a different way, but all I can hear is "you are wrong, because I am right" and "your argument doesn't exist, because it's not mentioned in my enlightened list of rational arguments"...
The fact I have strong views about the world does not mean I think they are set in stone.

However I do believe that there's a postmodern farse going on nowadays that claims that all points of view are equally valid (the "astrology is equally as important as astronomy" or "creationism is equally valid as darwinism" points stem from that worldview too). Well they're not, and in most cases if we're not talking about the nature of the electron (wave or particle) or other such matters someone (or even everyone...) will be wrong.

"Respect my views" stops healthy and meaningful discussions. If I think you're wrong I will tell you why I think you're wrong.
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  #86  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Jasiek's reply > Kasia's.




Damn, I was born in the wrong time.
Dude, he basically condems your viewpoint too as being irrational and you think he wins?

Jasiek's example of view "alpha" is ridiculous Kasia's reasons for "no" are completely different from the traditional conservatives Jasiek is targeting.
He basically says that any other opinion on this matter than his own is irrational. Really open minded.
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  #87  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
The fact I have strong views about the world does not mean I think they are set in stone.

However I do believe that there's a postmodern farse going on nowadays that claims that all points of view are equally valid (the "astrology is equally as important as astronomy" or "creationism is equally valid as darwinism" points stem from that worldview too). Well they're not, and in most cases if we're not talking about the nature of the electron (wave or particle) or other such matters someone (or even everyone...) will be wrong.

"Respect my views" stops healthy and meaningful discussions. If I think you're wrong I will tell you why I think you're wrong.
Ok, but then don't make too much assumptions or they will devalue the percieved value of your views. You didn't take the time to learn the reasons behind her reasoning. Maybe you are equally careless in other matters?

If you are going to attack someone's point of view, do so with the right arguments.

But other than that: I agree about the farse
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  #88  
Old 2013-01-14, 00:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Dude, he basically condems your viewpoint too as being irrational and you think he wins?
... yes, I know that.

I just meant that, if I was an imparcial judge, analyzing both sides, between Jasiek's points versus Kasia's reply, she falls short.

Plus, he writes a lot, writes very well, in an organized and logical fashion and generally exposes his ideas better.

Most importantly, he doesn't bitch-whine for hours before exposing his opinion telling others to go read a book in a terribly escapist and condescending manner like "because I am so much better than you - didn't you go to school? well I am sorry you are an ignorant; and anyway, I don't even want to speak my view on this, it's useless" like she did to Zee, then with me and pretty much everyone.

All this = ownage.

Sure, I disagree with his views that do not take any spirituality into account, but at least he is someone worth debating with.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #89  
Old 2013-01-14, 01:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
... yes, I know that.

I just meant that, if I was an imparcial judge, analyzing both sides, between Jasiek's points versus Kasia's reply, she falls short.

Plus, he writes a lot, writes very well, in an organized and logical fashion and generally exposes his ideas better.

Most importantly, he doesn't bitch-whine for hours before exposing his opinion telling others to go read a book in a terribly escapist and condescending manner like "because I am so much better than you - didn't you go to school? well I am sorry you are an ignorant; and anyway, I don't even want to speak my view on this, it's useless" like she did to Zee, then with me and pretty much everyone.

All this = ownage.

Sure, I disagree with his views that do not take any spirituality into account, but at least he is someone worth debating with.

You mean, you couldn't win against Kasia so you asked Jasiek to win a discussion for you?
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  #90  
Old 2013-01-14, 01:24
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Yep, Jasiek is my pet male. Fetch her, Jas, fetch !
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #91  
Old 2013-01-14, 01:32
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Romantic....
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  #92  
Old 2013-01-14, 01:43
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It's a love triangle.

I am only awaiting for the outcome of this very productive discussion to decide whether I'll settle with Jasiek or Kasia to have kids with.

I mean, you never know - what if I have kids with Jasiek and then he tells me he is against adoption!? would be a real shame.
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  #93  
Old 2013-01-14, 01:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
It's a love triangle.

I am only awaiting for the outcome of this very productive discussion to decide whether I'll settle with Jasiek or Kasia to have kids with.

I mean, you never know - what if I have kids with Jasiek and then he tells me he is against adoption!? would be a real shame.
He said because of Kasia he cannot have nice things in Poland. So, I think he he's the one for you then
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  #94  
Old 2013-01-14, 02:32
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p sure most of this thread should be chemically castrated

on a serious note if you have a problem with gay adoption you have a problem with gay people in general. it makes you homophobic. as a result of homophobia collectively, society suffers.

anyone saying no, the burden of proof lies with you. you can't just say "fuck the gays why should they have children" and get all fucking irritated when people call you out on your shitty, homophobic opinions. that's not "just an opinion" and not all opinions need to be respected equally, especially if they're offensive to a minority that is still fighting for basic rights. it's kind of like kicking a puppy like a football and then getting confused that people are reacting badly.
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Opinions are like testicles, everyone has theirs - Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you.
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but that's what it is, the troll is a rapist
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  #95  
Old 2013-01-14, 02:48
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  #96  
Old 2013-01-14, 05:55
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As I consider too that self-identity issues and else are in fact, facts. I do think that it is not to be considered a reason for gay couples to not adopt children, as they (issues) can be "fixed" by the cure to all evils: education. Sexual education is very important (specially for the youngest) and I don't think it's taken into account seriously by the educational system, at least not where I'm settled.

And as Jasiek and others already stated, the only reasons I consider that should be taken into account when purchasing.. I mean adopting a child (just a lil joke) should be that both parents have a way of providing the child with a good education, a healthy enviroment to develop and grow, and some other reasons I can't think right now cause I'm too lazy and it's too late.

Plus, haven't you seen modern family? their little girl is doing just fine!

-

And I read some pages behind that Kasia, you considered that slutty dressing was partially guity of some women being raped. I disagree, women could be naked and they are still not asking for it.

Weona pesa por la reconchetumare.

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  #97  
Old 2013-01-14, 11:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
I'm telling you from the beginning that I accept all other views
What if a view comes along that says you can't have a view? Will you accept that view as well?

If so then we're back to my little joke about why I can't have nice things!
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2013-01-14 at 11:34.
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  #98  
Old 2013-01-14, 11:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
I'd be fine about your views, if you said "I see how the (more or less probable) issues may affect a child, but I don't find them important / meaningful enough to give up on the idea which can, in my opinion, lead to something good".
I responded to the only argument you provided that could have been discussed against sincerely and without prejudice. The argument that you think that if there's at least a small chance of mistreatment of children adopted by same sex couples then "enough is enough" and how I thought it was illogical and impractical.

If you provide more arguments that we can talk about you'll get more of that from me.

What I still don't get is what happened in the beginning, and why did you claim the issue needs the parties discussing it to be versed in evolution and biology in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia
But you seem to be an extremist. Especially when you try to prove that the kids raised up by homosexual couples do better in life, etc.
I didn't try to prove them - it's a fact. Based not on some intrinsic quality of the glorious gay people, but on the mere fact that every single one of the kids they adopt is wanted. And yes, proper peer reviewed studies show clearly that children adopted by same sex couples are better off.
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  #99  
Old 2013-01-14, 12:06
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This could also mean that adopted kids in general are better off because they are wanted, while normal kids have a higher percentage of being an 'accident'?

You cannot by accident adopt
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  #100  
Old 2013-01-14, 12:50
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There's a prevalent issue of people adopting children because of social benefits that they receive on account of taking care of that kid - adoption because of benefits.

You misunderstood, the example of kids being rased by same sex couples is not meant to imply they they are better parents then decent heterosexual ones. You obviously have to take into account that the dysfunction that often shows in heterosexual couples adopting children has not yet reached this group since it's not as widespread.

However it clearly shows that a same sex couple can provide as good as an environment as a heterosexual one. So that homosexuality is off the table as an argument against.
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