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  #176  
Old 2013-01-16, 20:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
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And condoms and lube
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  #177  
Old 2013-01-16, 21:50
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Sources

Quote:
Synovitz LB, Byrne TJ., J Am Coll Health. Jan;46(4):151-8. (1998)

Partial abstract:

The variables found to be related to women's being sexually victimized were (a) number of different lifetime sexual partners, (b) provocative dress, and (c) alcohol use.
An Examination of Date Rape, Victim Dress, and Perceiver Variables Within the Context of Attribution Theory

Workman JE, Freeburg EW., Sex Roles, Volume 41, Numbers 3-4, 261-277 (1995)

This study found in part that the way a woman choose to dress is sometimes taken as a statement about her character including vulnerability, desire and/or willingness to have sex and provocation of males which consequently affects the likelihood of rape, including date rape.

The effects of clothing and dyad sex composition on perceptions of sexual intent: Do women and men evaluate these cues differently.

Abbey, A., Cozzarelli, C., McLaughlin, K., & Harnish, R. J. (1987) Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 17, 108–126.

Partial abstract:

A laboratory study was conducted in which subjects viewed a photograph of two students in a classroom. As predicted, male subjects rated female targets as more sexy and seductive than did female subjects. Also as predicted, female targets who wore revealing clothing were rated as more sexy and seductive than those wearing nonrevealing clothing. Female targets were rated higher on sexual traits regardless of the gender of their partner.
The study went on to infer that provocative dress can lead to an increased chance of date or spousal rape in some situations (primarily spousal and/or date rape).

Conclusion

While it is an unpopular view, I think it is safe to say that provocative dress may increase the chance of rape in some situations.

At the moment it is hard to say anything for sure, as there are too many variable factors. Rape statistics are often misreported or not reported at all. We don't know enough about how people interpret or respond to clothing. There also seems to be a lack of studies focusing on this area, which is understandable given the problems in obtaining data.
My point of view still looks so stupid? It took me 2 minutes to find this. Do you want to see my nipples now?
I'm just posting this because I "didn't post my sources", but again, there are different opinions about this matter, as I already said before (also Thanks Polaris), and it seems pretty useless to throw sources at eachother like that. Mine seems to be the only one to name the studies names tho.
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  #178  
Old 2013-01-16, 22:10
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Was my reply useless?

I feel terrible now
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  #179  
Old 2013-01-16, 22:40
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streggy, nobody doubts that some rapists are encouraged by provocative clothing. the point which everyone here is trying to make, and which you refuse to understand for some reason is:

1) you never know what will encourage a rapist, it might be "slutty" women, it might be covered up women. the rapist might have a thing for blond women, he might have a thing for old women.

2) there have been cases where old women were raped by young men.
were they "asking for it" by being old? or, to use your words, should they have "expected" to be raped, because they were old? were they "not really helping him to heal"?

3) if your answer to the above was "no", then please explain the difference between the case i brought up and the case of a rapist who rapes women with revealing attires.
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  #180  
Old 2013-01-16, 23:31
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Originally Posted by Anakin View Post
streggy, nobody doubts that some rapists are encouraged by provocative clothing. the point which everyone here is trying to make, and which you refuse to understand for some reason is:

1) you never know what will encourage a rapist, it might be "slutty" women, it might be covered up women. the rapist might have a thing for blond women, he might have a thing for old women.

2) there have been cases where old women were raped by young men.
were they "asking for it" by being old? or, to use your words, should they have "expected" to be raped, because they were old? were they "not really helping him to heal"?

3) if your answer to the above was "no", then please explain the difference between the case i brought up and the case of a rapist who rapes women with revealing attires.
that's what I tried to explain

wtf

am i invisible or sth?
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  #181  
Old 2013-01-17, 00:17
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Originally Posted by Carajo View Post
that's what I tried to explain

wtf

am i invisible or sth?
No, as Anakin said it's the point EVERYONE is trying to make but Streggy refuses to understand.
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  #182  
Old 2013-01-17, 00:57
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He does not refuses to understand it's not his opinion, and convinsing is an illusion. Someone's opinions are based on their life so far, it can't be changed by a discussion. The best we can do is exchange ideas to reflect upon them later.
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  #183  
Old 2013-01-17, 01:46
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... woah, this thread seriously went to shit.
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  #184  
Old 2013-01-17, 01:49
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I think in order to understand he just needs to rethink what he's saying, and try and read it from somebody else's perspective. All the you're wrong, you're dumb etc comments certainly wouldn't help with that.

Here's a breakdown of my thought process reading this, maybe it'll help:

Girls who wear "slutty" clothes
"slutty" clothes == attracting rapists
Therefore wear more appropriate clothes to avoid being raped

Kid who is adopted by gay parents
gay parents == bully
Therefore assume kids should not be adopted by gay parents

Black person
black person == abuse from racists
Therefore black people should avoid racists


Each one of these examples is built with same logic: there's a big factor causing an issue and the solution is to remove that factor. Racism being a prime example here because the issue isn't so easily avoidable, you couldn't as easily argue that a black person should avoid all contact as saying a girl should wear more clothes.

They're all the wrong approach because:

Girls who wear "slutty" clothes and raped: if all girls dressed "slutty" for a year, we wouldn't see a spike in rape victims. If we all walked around naked, and it was considered "normal", we wouldn't have a rape epidemic.

Kid adopted by parents and bulled: if a lot more gay parents existed, it would be again considered "normal" and therefore bullying due to it would correlate

Black people and racist abuse: well, I'm sure you know racism has gone down a hell of a lot. Do you think it would have happened if the blacks were shunned into their own community where they weren't allowed to mix with whites?


Avoiding the issue isn't fixing the issue, but in fact delaying a fix, possibly even forever.

Last edited by Echomote; 2013-01-17 at 02:01.
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  #185  
Old 2013-01-17, 02:31
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I thought you were going to say "Therefore black people should not be black"
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  #186  
Old 2013-01-17, 04:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
He does not refuses to understand it's not his opinion, and convincing is an illusion. Someone's opinions are based on their life so far, it can't be changed by a discussion. The best we can do is exchange ideas to reflect upon them later.
Refusal to understand is maybe the wrong choice of words. I don't wish to just pile on and attack Streggy for his point of view, but this is an issue which I feel very strongly about, for various reasons. Yes, you are entitled to your point of view, and we are entitled to disagree with it and think it's rubbish. It's actually a logically flawed thing to do in the middle of a debate, to say that you're only "expressing your opinion."

Echomote's post was a good way of trying to explain it again from a different perspective, but to be honest I understand that we're unlikely to change someone's way of thought. It just annoys me that there are people who think that way. (Not directed at Streggy personally, he's not the first and I'm sure he won't be the last person I come across with such opinions!)
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  #187  
Old 2013-01-17, 04:27
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You mean like free speech?

Free speech to speak intolerance is also there, that doesn't mean I have to put up with someone's irrationality just because they have the right to "free speech" (?).

I'm not attacking anyone in particular here, just trying to say that free speech is not a really strong argument.
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  #188  
Old 2013-01-17, 04:45
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Originally Posted by Carajo View Post
You mean like free speech?

Free speech to speak intolerance is also there, that doesn't mean I have to put up with someone's irrationality just because they have the right to "free speech" (?).

I'm not attacking anyone in particular here, just trying to say that free speech is not a really strong argument.
One of the problems is that "free speech" often becomes shorthand for "I can do, say and think whatever I like, and therefore continuing to debate with me is somehow disrespectful and you should just stop."

You are entitled to express your opinion, but telling me that is useless and not an argument. It confuses losing an argument with losing the right to argue. Again, not directed at anyone in particular.
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  #189  
Old 2013-01-17, 04:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
He does not refuses to understand it's not his opinion, and convinsing is an illusion. Someone's opinions are based on their life so far, it can't be changed by a discussion. The best we can do is exchange ideas to reflect upon them later.
what difference does it make what his opinions are based on?
if someone's opinions are shown to be inconsistent (which is clearly the case here) then he/she should rethink them, unless he's a child or a fool.
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  #190  
Old 2013-01-17, 05:41
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It confuses losing an argument with losing the right to argue.
Right there, free speech, or the "I can say/think/do whatever I want" can be, somehow, against the right to argue, contrary to what people can think.

Are we on the same side here?
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  #191  
Old 2013-01-17, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Anakin View Post
if someone's opinions are shown to be inconsistent (which is clearly the case here) then he/she should rethink them, unless he's a child or a fool.
Well that only means that she/he doesn't think that her/his opinion is inconsistent.
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  #192  
Old 2013-01-17, 14:26
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thank you for stating the obvious,
but it was clearly demonstrated to be inconsistent here and here.

you see, that's how a debate works. one side presents an argument and the other side tries to counter it. a debate isn't about saying "this is my opinion and it'll never change lalalala!"
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  #193  
Old 2013-01-17, 15:13
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Are we on the same side here?
I think so! That wasn't expressed very well, I was trying to say that people think their right to argue is being taken away, not their right to have their opinion taken as a serious candidate for the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carajo View Post
Right there, free speech, or the "I can say/think/do whatever I want" can be, somehow, against the right to argue, contrary to what people can think.
Exactly. You're basically saying "You don't have the right to argue with me because I have a right to my opinions." False. And, in the middle of an argument, utterly useless and meaningless.
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  #194  
Old 2013-01-17, 16:49
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