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  #1  
Old 2014-10-08, 18:38
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Battler Battler is offline
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Moderation complains

-xesf: Also, I think it's time the truth is finally told here.

First, why when I originally proposed to ask yaz0r to release his viewers, you and others told me not to because yaz0r wouldn't care and so on, yet the second I released my LBA 2 Island Height Map Viewers, all of a sudden, you people decided to ask him to release his viewers? Not that that was a bad thing in and of itself, it's just that the timing for it makes me think it was done deliberately to undermine my own project.

Second, why did you allow your girlfiend to target outright ad hominem attacks against me because I dared release my LBA Model Manager or what it was called. Yes, I do admit that I released it roughly soon after you announced your model editor, but I gave a real-life reason for why, though I do admit your announcement had motivated me work faster on it, something I never deny. You as a Moderator should have been impartial in the matter and taken action against her, yet you let your feelings for her and your own annoyment at me take over and you stood by and let her outright violate forum rules simply because you happened to agree with her. Why?

Third, why did you treat me like second-rate cattle in the LBA Prequel Team?
First you refused me application for a LBA Prequel Team Leader because allegedly no further leaders were needed, yet then some days later, you suddenly made Double-J one.
Then, when Double-J and I both "abused" the Team E-mail address to get rejected members to apply for the LBA: The Great Rebellion Team (I agree it was not the most appropriate behavior but there never was a clear rule forbidding that, either), I got punished with permanent Ban from accessing said address, yet Double-J was not punished at all even though he came up with the idea in the first place? Maybe you just needed a pretext to restrict my access?
And a year or two later, after a lot of faithful contributions to your Team, you essentially told me to shut up (after I was being abused by Double-J and Bot13 on a daily basis) for daring to suggest the project should be toned down and brought back to the original LBA 1 Engine. It caused me to leave the Team and yet then at some point after that, suddenly, you guys did that just what I was preaching to do. Maybe I was told to shut up because I was the one saying the things and you, out of your personal dislike for me, would rather die than acknowledge I might have a valid point?

Fourth, why did you react the same way during the discussion of your new LBA Engine project, when I dared propose to not use stuff requriing newer hardware, basically posting a very angry post telling me that if someone can't run your project, then they should just run the original engines instead? Screw the fact that any mods using features present in your engine but not in the original one wouldn't work then, right? Maybe it's because, again, it was me saying it?

Fifth, why do you claim you don't have the free time to work on modding yet at the same time you have ample free time to organize MBN Meetings? And when I dared propose to organize my own meeting, you refused to even consider the possibility?

Maybe, just maybe, you know, the modding scene died because you and a few other let your negative opinions about me destroy the entire modding community.
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  #2  
Old 2014-10-08, 19:01
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Xesf's girlfriend is a member ? Who is she ?
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  #3  
Old 2014-10-08, 19:03
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- Polaris: Her MBN nickname is Nor.
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  #4  
Old 2014-10-08, 19:09
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J McKalling J McKalling is offline
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I was just never involved anyway. Battler, I'm sure this vendeta against you from Xesf was unintentional. Please pm the people involved in this emotional case and keep the thread about the modding itself. You feeling uncomfortable is understandable, but I think you should find the right place to get it solved. It's a personal thing, don't involve us. This is a summary about modding, not a general conversation about personal things, right?

*Edit:
Btw I love you both. Keep the peace
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  #5  
Old 2014-10-08, 19:12
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No, I am not going to take matters to PM's. I want a public discussion. And I want the people to know what has been going on for 10 years now. Especially when the personal involved is the Moderator of this section, I think people have the right to know what to expect.
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  #6  
Old 2014-10-08, 19:16
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J McKalling J McKalling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
No, I am not going to take matters to PM's. I want a public discussion. And I want the people to know what has been going on for 10 years now. Especially when the personal involved is the Moderator of this section, I think people have the right to know what to expect.
PM was a suggestion, you could also go for a separate thread if a discussion is needed. Just don't mix it with this thread. Please Battler, we've talked about these things before. Just accept my suggestion and you'll be fine.
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  #7  
Old 2014-10-11, 04:12
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Hey Battle,

People who really know me, knows what to expect.
Some members know me personally, and I'm no different person here than in my "real" life.

Now regarding the various topics, I think you take it too serious, really.
If something like this you take this way, I don't know how things are going in personal and work life, but shouldn't be easy I guess.



1. Nothing was deliberated I can say.
Don't know what release came first, but you always had a lot of versions of all the tools, so that shouldn't be a big deal.

2. Yes, I remember my wife been pissed because your attitudes reason for what she wrote (confess I don't remember what).
Indeed I was a moderator, but back at the time and even now, I don't have the power to obligate someone to follow the rules. That's why we have super moderators. In that time they were quite active and none say nothing.
Anyway, I don't think you are the right person to say to others to "follow" the rules.

3. Again, you take it too serious. Me and Zink create the project and we were the project leaders. Double-J never was a named leader, but he was working hard on the game, and he feel responsible for what was involved.
Your copy cat behaviour and disagreement with everything made you the trap of leaving the team.

4. I know we all like this old game, but obligate everyone to use old hardware wasn't the right audience for the project.

5. I won't even dare reply to this point...



Unfortunately, the mod scene died because we have real lives and we need to go forward some day in life journey. We can't be stuck at the same projects all over. We can return to them, but not always stuck on them.

I think you got a completely wrong idea about me, because while you got troubles with everyone in the forum, I was the only one that actually was talking/working with you closely as before.
Your constant behaviour of wanting attention and be notice at all cost turned in this.



Just to end this - I really don't have any issues with you or anyone here in the forum. I did got pissed in the past because of your childish behaviours, but at the same time he did a lot for this modding scene and we learn both a lot together. Sorry if I couldn't agree with everything you wanted, but that's how life is. You need to go forward and accept all the challenges you came across.

No hard feelings!!
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  #8  
Old 2014-10-11, 20:20
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Battler Battler is offline
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Quote:
2. Yes, I remember my wife been pissed because your attitudes reason for what she wrote (confess I don't remember what).
Indeed I was a moderator, but back at the time and even now, I don't have the power to obligate someone to follow the rules. That's why we have super moderators. In that time they were quite active and none say nothing.
Anyway, I don't think you are the right person to say to others to "follow" the rules.
My attitude? All I did was release a program. Granted, at a weird timing, but that was about it. Her reaction was not at all warranted, and I'm quite sure she was simply blinded by love.
Also, you do have the power to delete post and to post posts telling people to stop arguing and report the situation to Super-Moderators or Administrator in case you think a Ban is warranted.
Also, the other Moderators that day also showed complete lack of care. The only Staff member that did the right thing that day was our founder elmuerte who attempted to mediate.
Also I'm not the right person? Please inform yourself more about me. I've been running my own forums since 2004, my own IRC Network since 2010, and have been a global Moderators on the BetaArchive Forum since last year. I think I know a lot by now about how to moderate and how to work with people, so your comment is very inappropriate and condescending, and by the way, the exact problem I have with you.
You constantly dismiss anything I say, and find excuses for that, and I'm slowly getting tired of that.

Quote:
3. Again, you take it too serious. Me and Zink create the project and we were the project leaders. Double-J never was a named leader, but he was working hard on the game, and he feel responsible for what was involved.
Ah, you're right. I mixed up something. It was about a Moderator position in the LBA Prequel Team section. When I asked for it the second time, you told me another Moderator wasn't needed, and then some days later, Double-J became on.

Quote:
Your copy cat behaviour and disagreement with everything made you the trap of leaving the team.
My copy-cat behavior? You do realize my own Mod was started in 2004, the LBA Prequel was started in what, 2005? 2006? If anything, my own Mod was older than yours.
And what exactly did I ever copy from yours? All I did was take Team members you rejected, which by the way was Double-J's idea, and he actively helped me with it. So he was responsible for that as much as I was. So what I was the only one punished for that?
And I don't really remember what else I copied/took from the LBA Prequel.
And constant disagreement with everything? Go back and read the whole discussions, from a NEUTRAL point of view. You're going to notice I was simply pushing to tone down the project so we can actually get it done on the original LBA 1 engine, simply because that way we can at least get something done. At that point we spent all the time discussing the engine and none doing actual work.
Also, while I do admit I was just as megalomaniac with own project - I suggest to look at the Prequel. It was run and advertised with the goal of becoming the #1 project, bigger than the original LBA games themselves, and it was only natural other projects would either give up altogether or start fiercely trying to outcompete you.
Add to that that I felt increasinbly uncomfortable about the Prequel because of the way I was treated especially at the later stages (during the Engine discussion). That just further fueled my need to try to outcompete the Prequel, in order to show that my vision was correct.

Granted, I do admit I was immature and childish at the time, but you can't exactly claim you were that mature yourself.
But guess where's the difference? I manned up and admitted my own past failures and screwups. I don't keep coming with excuses to justify my past behavior - because there are none. I was a complete attention-seeking moron back then, everyone knows that.
You on the other hand, as is clearly evident, still try to find excuses for your own failures and screwups.

Quote:
4. I know we all like this old game, but obligate everyone to use old hardware wasn't the right audience for the project.
There's a few reasons why I was pushing to stay with the LBA 1 engine or at most go for the LBA 2 one:
1. It's already there, already done. We can focus on the project itself rather than spend more time to make a new engine;
2. The new engine wouldn't work on the PC I had then - the graphics card I had at the time simply wouldn't have handled it, and I didn't exactly feel comfortable working on a game I myself wouldn't be able to play afterwards - I wasn't paid to work on the Prequel so I worked out of my own passion and enjoyment, but they go away when you find out you won't be able to even reap the fruits of your own hard work;
3. The new engine would have alienated most of the world: in Latin America, Central and Eastern Europe, and Southern and Southeastern Asia, old hardware is still very prevalent because of the enormous poverty and underpayment there; in addition, there's Japan where we know LBA 1 was immensely popular (after all, it was released for PC, PlayStation, NEC PC-98, and Fujitsu FM-Towns at the least) and we know that computers aren't upgraded often in Japan because most gaming is done on consoles there, and remember, the best game developers come from Japan, so we could get a lot of benefits from that audience.
It seems you only care about North Americans and West Europeans, and screw everyone else. And that to me is offensive because I myself live in a Central European country. Granted I have a better PC now, but I couldn't have known that then;
4. The engine change was decided against all consensus. It was mostly Double-J, Lewi-G, and Bot13 that pushed to it because they made the storyline and concept art without thinking of whether it would be feasible to implement on the LBA 1 engine in the first place (something, by the way, that I clearly admit I did myself in my own project at the time), and they wanted the project to adapt to their work rather than their work adapt to the project.
That's even against any business logic. Switching the project to a different engien to accomodate Double-J story and the work of Lewi-G and Bot13, is the same as if Microsoft decided to randomly switch Windows to the Linux kernel simply because some of the developers wrote stuff that works better under Linux and refused to adapt their work to the project's needs.
And you and Zink, instead of stepping it and attempting to mediate and have both camps reach a common ground, instead told the minority (ie. me) to shut up. Well, you told me to shut up, I recall Zink was actually more willing to listen to both sides, but you had the final say.

In addition, you still failed to address the fact that the LBA Prequel decided to return to the LBA 1 engine anyway some time after I left the Team, which makes the whole attitude towards me even more puzzling.
I mean, I get told to shut up and stop insisting on my opinion, and then at some point after I leave the project, the project choses to go with my opinion anyway. Why I was told to shut up then?

Quote:
I think you got a completely wrong idea about me, because while you got troubles with everyone in the forum, I was the only one that actually was talking/working with you closely as before.
Your constant behaviour of wanting attention and be notice at all cost turned in this.
And I never denied my own behavior was bad. But sorry but, giving me false reasons for why my promotion request was denied, punishing me but not Double-J for something both of us were involved in, and approaching all debates with a closed mind, imposing your own views and dismissing any opposing opinion, are not exactly examples of good behavior, either.

Quote:
Just to end this - I really don't have any issues with you or anyone here in the forum. I did got pissed in the past because of your childish behaviours, but at the same time he did a lot for this modding scene and we learn both a lot together. Sorry if I couldn't agree with everything you wanted, but that's how life is. You need to go forward and accept all the challenges you came across.

No hard feelings!!
My only problem is really with the fact you don't realize that you really didn't behave much better than myself in the past, and still show problematic behavior (ie. dismissal of all opposing views) to this day.
You still think you never did anything wrong, and I'm bothered by that.
But I know you're a good person and that some day you'll realize.
I harbor no hard feelings.
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  #9  
Old 2014-10-11, 21:23
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xesf xesf is offline
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Yeah, I recall some bad attitudes of mine as well, I'm not perfect though, never was. I can see two members in the forum that actually got pissed with me, you and Axx. Won't give any more excuses, it happens and people got pissed. For both apologies on my behaviour.

I hope you put of this past behind and move forward, at least I want too. There's no benefit in all this issues and LBA won't have any gain on it.
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  #10  
Old 2014-10-11, 23:43
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Battler Battler is offline
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- xesf: You're right. Apology accepted, and let's move on now.
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  #11  
Old 2014-10-12, 00:03
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Cheers
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  #12  
Old 2014-10-12, 00:22
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J McKalling J McKalling is offline
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Great! Glad this worked out.
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  #13  
Old 2014-10-12, 18:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
...and remember, the best game developers come from Japan...
I'm glad that this has become a universally accepted fact that in no way could be inflammatory or a matter of taste and opinion.
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Old 2014-10-12, 18:34
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  #15  
Old 2014-10-12, 20:46
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- Dino-Fly: I didn't know not being the best was an offense. Honestly anyone who gets offended at the thought of not being among the best developers, needs to grow up.
My point was simply that, the developers accepted as the best, tend to come from Japan. Japan is the home of Sony and Nintendo, after all. I never stated that all Western developers are inferior to all Japanese developers.
Though I do agree I overly generalized. The better would be to say: Some of the best game developers come from Japan..
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Old 2014-10-12, 22:06
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- Dino-Fly: I didn't know not being the best was an offense. Honestly anyone who gets offended at the thought of not being among the best developers, needs to grow up.
My point was simply that, the developers accepted as the best, tend to come from Japan. Japan is the home of Sony and Nintendo, after all. I never stated that all Western developers are inferior to all Japanese developers.
Though I do agree I overly generalized. The better would be to say: Some of the best game developers come from Japan..
I'm just saying that your original statement was far too cut and dry, and in a less friendly forum would immediately start a flamewar. Personally I prefer W-RPGs to J-RPGs, but I wouldn't say that Western game developers are the best RPG makers, just like I wouldn't say that the Japanese are the best game developers. It's largely a question of taste.

But I am on the same page with you that some of the best game developers do come from Japan.
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Old 2014-10-13, 09:27
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Also, what determines "best" ?
The ones who cash in the most money, the ones who're the most popular, the ones with best quality performance, a combo, etc?

It's indeed not the best phrase, but I personally wouldn't mind.
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Old 2014-10-13, 10:45
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"best" phrase ?
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Old 2014-10-14, 22:58
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Wow, they just solved this in a few posts.

Do this more often instead of holding things back. Remember when you thought Kasia was banned for the wrong reasons?
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Old 2014-10-15, 22:45
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I'm glad it all worked pretty well in the end, and you guys fixed what seemed like a big deal in very few posts! I might not know a lot about the both of you, specially the period before I joined the MBN but, INHO, it looks like you guys grew up a lot. You still had your complaints, but being able to understand each other and accept their opinion is a huge deal.
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Old 2014-10-18, 20:43
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Yes indeed.
I'm glad we're getting somewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
"best" phrase ?
Yes Polly, it was ironic, wasn't it?
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