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  #226  
Old 2015-03-06, 15:42
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What do you mean ?
They have no way of knowing their own eye colour.
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  #227  
Old 2015-03-06, 16:51
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I was kidding Polly.

They all die. Unless your english is failing. He just told them they all have blue eyes so they all die.

Unless you meant they have both a blue and a brown eye
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  #228  
Old 2015-03-06, 17:00
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See, in the version I was told, there is a guru with green eyes who may only speak once, at noon, on one particular day. What she says is: "I can see someone with blue eyes."

This version also doesn't involve suicide. There is a ferry which stops at the island every night at midnight, and once you have worked out what colour your eyes are you may leave.
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  #229  
Old 2015-03-06, 17:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
I was kidding Polly.

They all die. Unless your english is failing. He just told them they all have blue eyes so they all die.

Unless you meant they have both a blue and a brown eye
F***, MY ENGLISH IS FAILING

I meant "and is happy to see that there are blue-eyed people so far from his home aswell"
instead of "and is happy to see that they are blue-eyed people so far from his home aswell." x)

Editing my post right now.


Your version is less gore than mine, Mia
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  #230  
Old 2015-03-06, 21:58
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They can ask eye color for other people?

Or for themselves?

There is contradiction here. First you say they cannot find out their own eye colour, now it seems like they can?
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  #231  
Old 2015-03-06, 22:04
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Ok if there is one person, this person will find out.
If there is two, and one has brown eyes, one will find out.
With three people with one person having blue eyes, he will find out. If there are two with blue eyes, no one will find out as there is always one person with blue eyes you can see, therefor you cannot deduce that you must have blue eyes.
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  #232  
Old 2015-03-06, 23:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
They can ask eye color for other people?

Or for themselves?

There is contradiction here. First you say they cannot find out their own eye colour, now it seems like they can?
They couldn't find it out before the speech of the swedish guy. Afterwards, they can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Ok if there is one person, this person will find out.
If there is two, and one has brown eyes, one will find out.
With three people with one person having blue eyes, he will find out. If there are two with blue eyes, no one will find out as there is always one person with blue eyes you can see, therefor you cannot deduce that you must have blue eyes.
Yes, yes, and no.

If there is 100 brown and 2 blue, the blues can still find out they have blue eyes.
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  #233  
Old 2015-03-07, 05:22
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This puzzle is killing me.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #234  
Old 2015-03-07, 09:10
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Figured it out, nice one
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  #235  
Old 2015-03-07, 16:04
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I don't understand how this makes a difference.

Sure, people now know that there are people with blue eyes, but they already knew that (it's not as if everyone is blind). The Swede didn't say who has blue eyes, so wouldn't all the blue-eyed people just assume he was talking about someone else and maintain the status quo of believing that they themselves have brown eyes?

The only way people could work out if they have blue eyes is if the Swede explicitly stated that he was glad to meet 100 blue-eyed people, thus if an inhabitant counted 99 blue-eyed people they must be blue-eyed, and if they counted 100 blue-eyed people they must have brown eyes. Thus each person can work out for themselves their eye colour. But this only applies only if the Swede gave an integer.

Have I missed something?
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Spoiler:
Code:
#include "stdafx.h"
#include <iostream>
 
using namespace std;
 
int main()
{
  cout<<"Regards,\nDino-Fly\n";
 cin.get();
}
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  #236  
Old 2015-03-07, 17:11
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Oh I think I got it now! With dino-fly's insight.

Spoiler:

Everyone starts counting who has blue eyes. Then they say out loud their results for everyone.

Those who say 100 are brown, and those who say 99 will know they are blue, done?
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #237  
Old 2015-03-07, 18:35
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They don't know how many of each eye colour there are on the island, though.

I did explain why the Swedish guy made a difference in a previous post, but I'm not sure how well I explained it... it makes logical sense in my head, but I don't know if it came across properly.
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  #238  
Old 2015-03-07, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Oh I think I got it now! With dino-fly's insight.

Spoiler:

Everyone starts counting who has blue eyes. Then they say out loud their results for everyone.

Those who say 100 are brown, and those who say 99 will know they are blue, done?
I figured they couldn't do that since that would probably violate the no-talking-out-loud-about-eye-colour policy, hence the need for an external party to give them a number so that they can work things out without anyone revealing anything eye colour-related. Glad I helped though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia View Post
They don't know how many of each eye colour there are on the island, though.

I did explain why the Swedish guy made a difference in a previous post, but I'm not sure how well I explained it... it makes logical sense in my head, but I don't know if it came across properly.
If I understood what you wrote correctly, this was my rebuttal:

Quote:
Sure, people now know that there are people with blue eyes, but they already knew that (it's not as if everyone is blind). The Swede didn't say who has blue eyes, so wouldn't all the blue-eyed people just assume he was talking about other than themselves else and maintain the status quo of believing that they themselves have brown eyes?
The Swede confirmed what they already knew. What the people don't know is whether they themselves personally have blue eyes, and the Swede did nothing to provide any more enlightenment in that regard. I don't see any reason why anyone in particular should be questioning the colour of their eyes.

Here is my logical reasoning:

Pre-Swede
Everyone can see, ergo everyone knows everyone else's eye-colour. Thus everyone knows that blue-eyed and brown-eyed people exist. As no-one knows the colour of their eyes, they know their eyes are either blue or brown, but know not which. Because not everyone has committed suicide on the island yet, it means that people treat it that their eyes are brown unless proven beyond reasonable doubt that they are blue. Thus everyone personally believes they have brown eyes.

Post-Swede
The Swede stated that blue-eyed people exist on the island. As the people all already know that is true, he has provided no new information. Ergo status quo remains.

Point of View of a Blue-Eyed Person
I have seen people with blue eyes on the island, therefore there are people on the island with blue eyes. I don't know the colour of my eyes so I assume they are brown because I don't like committing suicide. The Swede states that there are blue-eyed people on the island. This is consistent with my observation. I have no reason to believe he was talking specifically about me, so I will continue to believe that I have blue eyes, and assume the Swede was talking about the blue-eyed people I have seen on the island before.
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Spoiler:
Code:
#include "stdafx.h"
#include <iostream>
 
using namespace std;
 
int main()
{
  cout<<"Regards,\nDino-Fly\n";
 cin.get();
}
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  #239  
Old 2015-03-07, 19:55
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Yes Dino... That's why my first reply to this puzzle was "nothing happens".... [emoji38] now if only Polly could enlighten us.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #240  
Old 2015-03-07, 23:14
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All the blue eyed people leave on the ***th day
Try solving it with two, then 3 etc

Last edited by Neko; 2015-03-07 at 23:41.
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  #241  
Old 2015-03-08, 13:08
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I realised what my problem was, I overlooked that there is a temporal factor (I kept on assuming the result had to be instantaneous). The purpose of the Swede isn't to provide new information (everything he said was already known), what he did was sync up everyone's time, so to speak. Thus he provides a new, temporal dimension upon which the inhabitants can work out the colour of their eyes based on the actions of each other after a certain period of time.

The solution in a verbose manner for SKG and future people on this thread:

Spoiler:
Let us first imagine a world in which there is only one person with blue eyes (person A). Without the Swede he has no idea what colour his eyes are.

Once the Swede arrives, he now knows that he must have blue eyes, as everyone else he sees has brown eyes. Thus the next day he will commit suicide.

Now from the point of view of a person with brown eyes (person B). They don't know their eye colour either; they can see person A, but there is a chance that the Swede was also talking about person B. This creates a few IF-THEN loops.

IF person B has brown eyes THEN person A won't see anyone with blue eyes. Person A doesn't see anyone with blue eyes, so person A must have blue eyes. Thus person A commits suicide the next day. Because person A commits suicide the next day, person B knows that person B doesn't have blue eyes, because if they did person A wouldn't know that person A has blue eyes.

IF person B has blue eyes THEN person A sees one person with blue eyes, and person B sees one person with blue eyes. Thus, applying from what we learnt in the previous IF-THEN, both of them know that if no-one commits suicide the next day, both person A and person B has blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the second day together.

Now let's add a third person with blue eyes (person C):

Person A, B and C all see 2 people with blue eyes. Each person knows that if they have brown eyes, then there are only 2 people with blue eyes on the island, and thus they would both commit suicide on the second day. If no-one has committed suicide on the next day, then they must all have blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the third day.

Thus, if you can see x people with blue eyes, and x days have passed, and no-one has committed suicide, then you must have blue eyes. If after x days x (blue-eyed) people have committed suicide, then you have brown eyes.

Thus, after 100 days all the 100 people with blue eyes will commit suicide on day 100.
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Spoiler:
Code:
#include "stdafx.h"
#include <iostream>
 
using namespace std;
 
int main()
{
  cout<<"Regards,\nDino-Fly\n";
 cin.get();
}
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  #242  
Old 2015-03-08, 13:14
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A new riddle from Baldur's Gate 2. I was playing BG2:EE recently, and was surprised at how long it took me to work it out. I need to include options for solutions because there are in fact an infinite number of potential solutions (that's a pretty big hint in and of itself). Please provide your proof along with the answer, so as to mitigate guessing.

Here it is:

A princess is as old as the prince will be when the princess is twice as old as the prince was when the princess' age was half the sum of their current ages.
A. Princess is 30, Prince is 20
B. Princess is 30, Prince is 40
C. Princess is 40, Prince is 30
D. Princess is 20, Prince is 30
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Spoiler:
Code:
#include "stdafx.h"
#include <iostream>
 
using namespace std;
 
int main()
{
  cout<<"Regards,\nDino-Fly\n";
 cin.get();
}
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  #243  
Old 2015-03-08, 13:20
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Correct! So why arent you a programmer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
I realised what my problem was, I overlooked that there is a temporal factor (I kept on assuming the result had to be instantaneous). The purpose of the Swede isn't to provide new information (everything he said was already known), what he did was sync up everyone's time, so to speak. Thus he provides a new, temporal dimension upon which the inhabitants can work out the colour of their eyes based on the actions of each other after a certain period of time.

The solution in a verbose manner for SKG and future people on this thread:

Spoiler:
Let us first imagine a world in which there is only one person with blue eyes (person A). Without the Swede he has no idea what colour his eyes are.

Once the Swede arrives, he now knows that he must have blue eyes, as everyone else he sees has brown eyes. Thus the next day he will commit suicide.

Now from the point of view of a person with brown eyes (person B). They don't know their eye colour either; they can see person A, but there is a chance that the Swede was also talking about person B. This creates a few IF-THEN loops.

IF person B has brown eyes THEN person A won't see anyone with blue eyes. Person A doesn't see anyone with blue eyes, so person A must have blue eyes. Thus person A commits suicide the next day. Because person A commits suicide the next day, person B knows that person B doesn't have blue eyes, because if they did person A wouldn't know that person A has blue eyes.

IF person B has blue eyes THEN person A sees one person with blue eyes, and person B sees one person with blue eyes. Thus, applying from what we learnt in the previous IF-THEN, both of them know that if no-one commits suicide the next day, both person A and person B has blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the second day together.

Now let's add a third person with blue eyes (person C):

Person A, B and C all see 2 people with blue eyes. Each person knows that if they have brown eyes, then there are only 2 people with blue eyes on the island, and thus they would both commit suicide on the second day. If no-one has committed suicide on the next day, then they must all have blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the third day.

Thus, if you can see x people with blue eyes, and x days have passed, and no-one has committed suicide, then you must have blue eyes. If after x days x (blue-eyed) people have committed suicide, then you have brown eyes.

Thus, after 100 days all the 100 people with blue eyes will commit suicide on day 100.
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  #244  
Old 2015-03-08, 15:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
A new riddle from Baldur's Gate 2. I was playing BG2:EE recently, and was surprised at how long it took me to work it out. I need to include options for solutions because there are in fact an infinite number of potential solutions (that's a pretty big hint in and of itself). Please provide your proof along with the answer, so as to mitigate guessing.

Here it is:

A princess is as old as the prince will be when the princess is twice as old as the prince was when the princess' age was half the sum of their current ages.
A. Princess is 30, Prince is 20
B. Princess is 30, Prince is 40
C. Princess is 40, Prince is 30
D. Princess is 20, Prince is 30

C.
40+30 is 70/2 is 35. That was 5 years ago, primce was 25. Princes will be 50 when she is twice that age and the prince will then be 40
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  #245  
Old 2015-03-08, 16:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Correct! So why arent you a programmer?
The result of a series of poor life decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
C.
40+30 is 70/2 is 35. That was 5 years ago, primce was 25. Princes will be 50 when she is twice that age and the prince will then be 40
Correct! I was hoping you'd use simultaneous equations to make a single algebraic equation that tells you that the age ratio is 3:4, but trial and error works too.
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Spoiler:
Code:
#include "stdafx.h"
#include <iostream>
 
using namespace std;
 
int main()
{
  cout<<"Regards,\nDino-Fly\n";
 cin.get();
}
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  #246  
Old 2015-03-09, 00:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
I realised what my problem was, I overlooked that there is a temporal factor (I kept on assuming the result had to be instantaneous). The purpose of the Swede isn't to provide new information (everything he said was already known), what he did was sync up everyone's time, so to speak. Thus he provides a new, temporal dimension upon which the inhabitants can work out the colour of their eyes based on the actions of each other after a certain period of time.

The solution in a verbose manner for SKG and future people on this thread:

Spoiler:
Let us first imagine a world in which there is only one person with blue eyes (person A). Without the Swede he has no idea what colour his eyes are.

Once the Swede arrives, he now knows that he must have blue eyes, as everyone else he sees has brown eyes. Thus the next day he will commit suicide.

Now from the point of view of a person with brown eyes (person B). They don't know their eye colour either; they can see person A, but there is a chance that the Swede was also talking about person B. This creates a few IF-THEN loops.

IF person B has brown eyes THEN person A won't see anyone with blue eyes. Person A doesn't see anyone with blue eyes, so person A must have blue eyes. Thus person A commits suicide the next day. Because person A commits suicide the next day, person B knows that person B doesn't have blue eyes, because if they did person A wouldn't know that person A has blue eyes.

IF person B has blue eyes THEN person A sees one person with blue eyes, and person B sees one person with blue eyes. Thus, applying from what we learnt in the previous IF-THEN, both of them know that if no-one commits suicide the next day, both person A and person B has blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the second day together.

Now let's add a third person with blue eyes (person C):

Person A, B and C all see 2 people with blue eyes. Each person knows that if they have brown eyes, then there are only 2 people with blue eyes on the island, and thus they would both commit suicide on the second day. If no-one has committed suicide on the next day, then they must all have blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the third day.

Thus, if you can see x people with blue eyes, and x days have passed, and no-one has committed suicide, then you must have blue eyes. If after x days x (blue-eyed) people have committed suicide, then you have brown eyes.

Thus, after 100 days all the 100 people with blue eyes will commit suicide on day 100.
Exactly

That's why I like this riddle, apparently no new information is delivered, but there still is a result. That time sync-up was what I came up with aswell when I was looking for an explanation, but it still sounds weird, I have to re-think it.
-----
Dammit, can't understand what's going on in your riddle >.< frustrating because I feel like if it was in french, I'd understand
(I haven't read the solution.)
-----
Does anyone else want to have a go ? I have an easier set and a harder one left
(with a result not quite as interesting/philosophical as the eye colour one, sadly)
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Last edited by Polaris; 2015-03-09 at 01:24.
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  #247  
Old 2015-03-09, 03:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
Spoiler:
Person A, B and C all see 2 people with blue eyes. Each person knows that if they have brown eyes, then there are only 2 people with blue eyes on the island, and thus they would both commit suicide on the second day. If no-one has committed suicide on the next day, then they must all have blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the third day.
WHAA----AAT!? This is the answer? *RAGES*

This makes no sense. I'm probably being really, really slow witted and dumb but this is how it'd go for me...

Spoiler:

"Person A, B and C all see 2 people with blue eyes. Each person knows that if they have brown eyes, then there are only 2 people with blue eyes on the island"

OK, so far makes perfect sense until...

"and thus they would both commit suicide on the second day."

Eh, no? Because they don't know, just like you don't know either?

"If no-one has committed suicide on the next day, then they must all have blue eyes, and will commit suicide on the third day."

At no point do they know if there are only 3 or 2 blue eyed guys... thus each of them sees there are 2 blue eyed people who, do not suicide the next day, and that's it! How does that tell you anything!?

What if you're a brown eyed guy in this situation, a person D? will you suppose you have blue eyes too, just because no-one suicided that day?!

I'm baffled, sorry if it's plain simple to you.

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sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #248  
Old 2015-03-09, 08:47
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The solution is, all blue eyed folk leave on the 100th day because there are 100 blue eyed folk.

If there was one blue eye, the relevation would make that guy say: hey i see no one with blue eyes so I must have blue eyes.
If there are two guys, each blue eyed folk would see one blue eye guy that doesn't leave the first day. From that you can deduce that you also have blue eyes so you both leave the next day
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  #249  
Old 2015-03-09, 11:15
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Heyyy, use spoileerss

SGK,
Spoiler:
1 blue eyed guy : If you are blue eyed, you know it's you. If you are brown eyed, you see blue eyed guy kill himself on the first day, so you he is the only blue eyed person.
2 blue eyed guy : If you are blue eyed, you see another blue eyed, so you don't kill yourself on the first day. But the other blue eyed person doesn't kill himself either. That means there is at least 2 blue eyed person, but you see only one, so you know you are one aswell. So you kill yourself on the second day. The other blue eyed guy follows the same train of thought, so you both kill yourselves on day 2. If you are brown eyed, you see 2 blue eyed guy that killed themselves on day 2.
and so on
3 blue eyed guy : If you are blue eyed, you see 2 blue eyed guy, you know that if there is only 2, they kill themselves at day 2. It doesn't happen, because every blue eyed guy thinks the same. So they must be seeing a third one. You see only 2, you are the third -> triple suicide on third day.
etc...
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  #250  
Old 2015-03-09, 15:08
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Real life logic that my friend failed to solve today. There are thirteen seats in one of her classes for fourteen students. Usually her friend saves her a seat, but this friend won't be there today, so she was worried that she would have to rush from one class to another to ensure herself a seat.

I told her I thought she would definitely get a seat and she spent ages trying to figure out how that was possible!
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The EEE Thread 2006 Darkflame Off topic 190 2006-06-01 12:08


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