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Little Script Adventure An open-source 3D engine with assets and tools for all future LBA fan-games.

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  #2651  
Old 2011-10-07, 22:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horadrim View Post
The limitation will be only for the randomness or at all? Because if this is for all bone structures, then this could become a problem with the characters.
Limitation is caused by GLSL vector size - you can fit only 4 weights in a single vector. Sure, you can lift that limitation up a bit using some math/coding tricks. The question is whether you really need more than 4 bones per vertex or not. I guess a simple example of such model will do fine, with an explanation of why reducing weight count won't work.

There is a much more significant limitation - bone count limit. There is a pretty simple method: just split the model into multiple sub-meshes, each one containing a limited number of bones. You can benefit greatly from that. Basically, it allows you to create models with virtually unlimited bone count.
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  #2652  
Old 2011-10-08, 13:35
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Apart from models split into many meshes looking like ass .

Unless they're not closed and you weld the vertices where they touch...
Why would you want hundreds of bones anyway?

coughvirtuafightercough
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  #2653  
Old 2011-10-08, 20:57
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Apart from models split into many meshes looking like ass . Unless they're not closed and you weld the vertices where they touch...
They won't look like ass. I have an algorithm in my head, which, I believe, will do that task correctly and quite easily. It sounds a bit complicated, though.
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Why would you want hundreds of bones anyway?
I've just remembered that someone was bumping into the bone count limit quite a long time ago. Is it no longer necessary? Fine.
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  #2654  
Old 2011-10-08, 22:35
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I didnt have problems with number of bones as far as I remember. Concerning the 4 weights limitation I thought to find 4 biggest and normalize them. The cases I found more was because there were residuals from weight paint operations and you could not see the difference with 4.
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  #2655  
Old 2011-10-10, 22:35
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the trees we have dont have skeleton so I was wondering if you would prepare one ?
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  #2656  
Old 2011-10-11, 16:20
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The structure of the models is not like the regular trees. If I add bones for the branches, they`ll look odd when animated. The only place that will be appropriate for bones will be the trunk. How do you plan to animate them anyway?
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  #2657  
Old 2011-10-11, 16:50
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I want to add noise in bones rotations, so I'd need a regular tree
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  #2658  
Old 2011-10-11, 17:12
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Then I guess, Jasiek should tweak the tree model then.
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  #2659  
Old 2011-10-12, 19:37
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I found interesting tree model to work on, would be good cause it's low poly, big leaves which is good for shadow map, easy to rig
But it's MAX

http://www.gfx-3d-model.com/2008/12/maple-tree-model/

It would be nice if you convert it to blender ! (or OBJ)
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  #2660  
Old 2011-10-12, 22:00
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I'll just leave it here.

In the case of trees, vertex animation is way better. Crytek guys figured out a nice way of doing it. Skinning won't work well: it's simply not suited for that. Also, having many skinned objects will hurt performance a lot.
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  #2661  
Old 2011-10-12, 22:48
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Okay, all done. One of the three trees is in the repo (they differ only by texture). BTW, what happened to the sglow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Skinning won't work well: it's simply not suited for that.
Amen to that! I don`t like the idea of skinned trees/flags either.
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  #2662  
Old 2011-10-13, 01:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
I found interesting tree model to work on, would be good cause it's low poly, big leaves which is good for shadow map, easy to rig
But it's MAX

http://www.gfx-3d-model.com/2008/12/maple-tree-model/

It would be nice if you convert it to blender ! (or OBJ)
That's sort of really not keeping with the style....
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  #2663  
Old 2011-10-13, 01:19
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I believe, he wanted it just for testing purposes. It`ll be a shame if we use a model from a royalty-free website . However though, the model is cute, but I think that it`s more suitable for RTS games.

Last edited by Horadrim; 2011-10-13 at 12:21.
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  #2664  
Old 2011-10-13, 16:15
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tanks for the obj model, yeah its only for testing purpose dont worry !
I've been working on water shader, I badly need the ground below water and at least 1x1 faces on nearpharmacy map
The map still doesn't export well for me, needs hand made corrections on obj

where do we need sglow apart from skybox ? Isn't glow enough ? please give me examples.

The tree skinning could be at least tested before you say its bad idea ?
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  #2665  
Old 2011-10-13, 20:18
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I need the sglow for the snow and some icey-snow stuff. Combined with objects, with applied glass shader, it`ll look marvelous. I thing to use it intensively for the cold regions.
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  #2666  
Old 2011-10-13, 22:26
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do you have some WIP of icy regions ? Cant wait to see it !
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  #2667  
Old 2011-10-13, 22:54
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i've read the whole article look at 6.7 each vertex is afected to a branch so its bone animation too
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  #2668  
Old 2011-10-14, 00:50
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No, I don`t have any WIPs yet. I wanted to experiment with the materials first, so I could see what I could achieve. I was thinking to make the Clear Water Lake scene, since it`s small and won`t take me much time to make. It`ll be also a nice testing region. About the trees - the vertices might be affected by branches, yes, but I believe, the whole thing is made with algorithm, so there`s no skinning. Also I suppose the movement will be more fluent and realistic.
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  #2669  
Old 2011-10-14, 10:38
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the same tree with skeleton and wind animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep0184k2fuE

since leaves are actually quads, rendering with shading on gives weird results, just like the tree in viewer actually. It looks WAY better with shading disabled in that case. But it needs correct ambient lighting so I guess it's a new material ? Or sglow is supposed to have ambient lighting too ? (i.e. you would'nt see it the night)




Edit :
- I had to use an older version of blender (2.49), I can't figure out how to do very basic things like create/select vertex groups and have alpha clipping on ALL faces. One is possible but when you have hundreds of faces its ridiculous to do one by one. The copy properties button disappeared ...

- I couldn't export well to SMD ;(
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Last edited by David; 2011-10-14 at 11:21.
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  #2670  
Old 2011-10-14, 13:18
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In a new file go to User Preferences->Addons->Type in Copy and turn on the "Copy attributes" addon, save as default.
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  #2671  
Old 2011-10-14, 18:00
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thanks
SMD works !
trunk/assets/test/maple/maple.smd
I forgot some parameter in SMD exporter, the bones were starting by 1 instead of 0
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  #2672  
Old 2011-10-19, 16:24
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I've updated with new version of _ocean shader which handles refraction, transparency depends on angle of view. This shader looks really cool if you put detailed ground under water, and 1x1 quads. No maps have such a thing, would be really nice if you design one ...

_glass and _glow should work fine, _sglow is almost ready. I'll use with tree leaves for the moment.

Blender 2.59 has a tree module and can create armatures too, even wind animation. So I added another tree in test folder made with this module. Number of bones can be reduced if using branch sprite instead of leaf sprite, I made a SMD with 25 bones.
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  #2673  
Old 2011-10-19, 22:03
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I didn`t quite understand what do you mean with the 1x1 maps/quads. Could you explain a bit more?
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  #2674  
Old 2011-10-19, 22:05
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its the unit of measure, smaller quads would mean lots of tris and bigger quads would mean not enough vertices, the waves would look too segmented
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  #2675  
Old 2011-10-19, 22:56
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I know that it`s measure unit, I meant, what do you need exactly to be done?
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