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  #1  
Old 2010-09-29, 00:42
Lightwing Lightwing is offline
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Dear Ken Levine

Please stop recycling System Shock 2.

Am I the only one getting tired of this?
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  #2  
Old 2010-09-29, 01:07
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Meh

If they make a game in that convention called CHICKEN OF THE INFINITE, then I'm all for it.
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  #3  
Old 2010-09-29, 01:12
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It's remarkable how strongly you feel about these things.
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  #4  
Old 2010-09-29, 02:35
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I think, anyway, that it looks and feels pretty amazing.

HOWEVER, for some strange reason I'd rather see that same settings as a busy city with quests and puzzles to solve then the weird and paranoid setting it is...
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  #5  
Old 2010-09-29, 02:39
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SkyShock.
It should be called SkyShock darnit.

Unless, in a twist at the end, its all going to be like a simulation or something. Which would be lame, but not too suprising.
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  #6  
Old 2010-09-29, 03:21
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I loves me some Bioshock.
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  #7  
Old 2010-09-29, 12:12
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The city is pretty great and I dig the general style, though I can't help but think of Dark Corners of the Earth with those crazy people, which doesn't really suit the look of the city, but I still appreciate the creepy touch to it.
Overall I enjoyed this video, so this Ken Levine guy may proceed in his works. That is all.
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  #8  
Old 2010-09-29, 20:37
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Nobody is bothered by the fact that this is the same stuff, down to specific story based gameplay that's being reused with different names??

Alright, what about the scary goth chick? Surely somebody is freaked out about that?
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  #9  
Old 2010-09-29, 21:38
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No, nobody cares.
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  #10  
Old 2010-09-29, 22:58
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Now I know why half-assed game designs continue to be half-assed.
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  #11  
Old 2010-09-29, 23:54
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Oh fuck off, will you? Just because its been done before doesn't mean its any less good the next time around. Why don't you also complain about all other FPS' since they're all just recycled Wolfenstein 3D, they're all about some guy who shoots shit up.
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  #12  
Old 2010-09-30, 00:46
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Lightwing there was nothing scary about that girl.....

I liked that the atmosphere wasn't the weird claustrophobic, dark and damp bioshock. I don't like games that take place mostly in closed spaces. This one I may check cause it looks gorgeous and "cinematic" and is pretty oniric without being like a clone of alone in the dark/resident evil...
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  #13  
Old 2010-09-30, 00:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouserz View Post
Oh fuck off, will you? Just because its been done before doesn't mean its any less good the next time around. Why don't you also complain about all other FPS' since they're all just recycled Wolfenstein 3D, they're all about some guy who shoots shit up.
Tell me to fuck off one more time..
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  #14  
Old 2010-09-30, 01:09
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Its more irritating when something gets praised for story/originality and is looked upto, but recycles stuff, then when something is just generic from the outset and doesn't get any respect anyway.
I mean, I'm not a Doom fan, but the games don't bother me. They just exist.
On the other hand, Mass Effect keeps getting praised for its story, yet as a sci-fi fan I see its 90% a load of recycled mess, I get pissed of that its looked upto.

So I can certainly see a difference.

That said, theres so many good quality games these days, if a big-branded one isn't doing it for you, look at the indie stuff. Frictional's stuff is excellent horror, for example.
Hell, Yahtzee just reviewed their latest and didn't hate it! :P
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  #15  
Old 2010-09-30, 02:55
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To be honest I played only minutes of Bioshock, so I don't know how similar those two games are, but generally speaking I don't expect a brand new experience whenever I play a new game, especially when it goes under the same name. Sometimes you want more from the same good stuff, and if it means doing it in a nicer environment then great.

If LBA3 was released with the same engine as LBA2 and pretty much the same plot devices (defeat the tyrant which happens to be Funfrock again, gain levels of magic again, obtain the protopack again, etc.) I'm sure I would've enjoyed it just as much as when I played LBA2 for the first time.

By the way it seems to work with the Monkey Island games as well. I didn't play the new (episodic) games, but my sister is currently playing the first and second games after she played the third and fourth a few years back, and she reminded me of the fact there wasn't much effort done to make the stories completely fresh.
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  #16  
Old 2010-09-30, 03:15
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Darkflame in case of Mass Effect the story was "fresh" for a GAME, it's not praised as a novel, or a movie, or as a song. As an action packed sci-fi game it's awesome. So what if it's not on par with Ender's Game story-wise...

How many hard sci-fi games are there? There was The DIG, Advent Rising, Dead Space maybe...
All the Star Wars games, despite being awesome, sure as hell aren't Sci-fi, I'd call those Sci-fantasy.

Now this game seems to have things I might like:
Wide open spaces - check
Steampunk - check
Oniric/dreamlike - check
Cinematic - check

The horror part might be a con for me, because I fucking hate horror games... And I only know two or three that could climb over the silly (IMMENSE UNDERSTATEMENT) horror genre and be good games (deadspace, clive barkers undying and AVP2)
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  #17  
Old 2010-09-30, 03:36
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Quote:
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Tell me to fuck off one more time..
If you insist, then I'm glad to oblige. Fuck off, Mr.Sensitive.
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  #18  
Old 2010-09-30, 12:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
Darkflame in case of Mass Effect the story was "fresh" for a GAME, it's not praised as a novel, or a movie, or as a song. As an action packed sci-fi game it's awesome. So what if it's not on par with Ender's Game story-wise...

How many hard sci-fi games are there? There was The DIG, Advent Rising, Dead Space maybe...
All the Star Wars games, despite being awesome, sure as hell aren't Sci-fi, I'd call those Sci-fantasy.

Now this game seems to have things I might like:
Wide open spaces - check
Steampunk - check
Oniric/dreamlike - check
Cinematic - check

The horror part might be a con for me, because I fucking hate horror games... And I only know two or three that could climb over the silly (IMMENSE UNDERSTATEMENT) horror genre and be good games (deadspace, clive barkers undying and AVP2)
silent hill series are one of the best things. in the world.
not only is it mucho scary, with cool characters and atmosphere,
also the plot is sh2+4 make psychological thrillers seem like kiddy movies.
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  #19  
Old 2010-09-30, 13:44
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  #20  
Old 2010-09-30, 14:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
Darkflame in case of Mass Effect the story was "fresh" for a GAME, it's not praised as a novel, or a movie, or as a song. As an action packed sci-fi game it's awesome. So what if it's not on par with Ender's Game story-wise...
No, it just sucked and made no sense. By any benchmark :P
Pointing at most games having shiter-storys is not much excuse.
(after all, most games have a better story then Tetris :P)

A lot of mass-effect was also ripped from Star Control 2, so even sticking within games (and not looking back at original series star-trek stuff), its not too original.

Now, as a casual miss-mess of sci-fi clinches it would have just been fine. Nothing actually wrong with that. Hell, I like lots of stuff thats unoriginal. Sometimes things can just be plane fun, without being deep in any way.

The problem is people actually think its a good story, or original. And it gets praised for it. And thats annoying. Its not the game so much as the praise for it.

Theres plenty of other games with solid story's (both fantasy and scifi)
Bladerunner,Anachronox,Dues-Ex,KotoR2,StarControl2.
And, personal favorites of mine, Eternal Darkness and Sands of Time (but those ones are firmly in fantasy, of course)

Not sure where you'd draw the line at "hard" sci-fi, thats certainly very rare in games - but then, I wouldn't call mass effect hard Sci-Fi to start with. Harder then star wars, for sure, but its still well into space-opera territory.

But then, Hard Sci-Fi doesn't necessarily mean good sci-fi either, so thats neither here nor there :P
---
One last note though; Ive judging this all purely by Mass Effect 1, Ive never seen or played ME2. If that explains all the plot holes of ME1 away, fair enough.
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  #21  
Old 2010-09-30, 16:04
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Quote:
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No, it just sucked and made no sense. By any benchmark :P
Your opinion. I loved it. Played both games a couple of times - and for me that's a benchmark of a good game - replay value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
its not too original.
I. DO. NOT. CARE.
It's a game, it's meant to be entertaining, and it is, A LOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Hell, I like lots of stuff thats unoriginal. Sometimes things can just be plane fun, without being deep in any way.
YOU. ALSO. DO. NOT. CARE. apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Its not the game so much as the praise for it.
Admit then (based on those ^ two lines it's blatantly obvious...) that your problem with the game is purely emotional and irrational. And that for some reason you don't like the hype. Fair enough. Like me and Lost which I think sucks monkey balls, for absolutely no reason, it just sucks. I don't like it, not going to dissect it and prove to people why, I just don't, there's no need to rationalize it, it's not a stance on abortion or euthanasia. It's a fictional story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Not sure where you'd draw the line at "hard" sci-fi, thats certainly very rare in games - but then, I wouldn't call mass effect hard Sci-Fi to start with. Harder then star wars, for sure, but its still well into space-opera territory.
ME is somewhere between sci-fi/hard sci-fi and space opera. Hard sci-fi means stories where the tech is explained, tries to look as much believable as possible, is often based on real scientific principles (but can also have an internal explanation). Sci-fi would be more loose, space opera is just all that but "epic" with multiple main characters and usually a grand scale of the events.

Star wars for me is more sci-fantasy if anything. It focuses on the story and the characters and omits totally the technological/scientific aspects. It's a story where the tech is taken completely for granted. And I still adore it of course.

A quote from ME2, that sort of proves there is hard sci-fi elements in ME:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME2
Gunnery Chief - "This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth.That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space. Now! Serviceman Burnside! What is Newton's First Law?"

Recruit - "Sir! An object in motion stays in motion, sir!"

Gunnery Chief -"No credit for partial answers, maggot!"

Recruit - "Sir! Unless acted on by an outside force, sir!"

Gunnery Chief - "Damn straight! I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty. Once you fire a husk of metal, it keeps going until it hits something. That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years.
If you pull the trigger on this, you're ruining someone's day somewhere and sometime. That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a damn firing solution! That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not "eyeball it!" This is a weapon of mass destruction. You are not a cowboy shooting from the hip."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
But then, Hard Sci-Fi doesn't necessarily mean good sci-fi either, so thats neither here nor there :P
True, but I've never seen any hard sci-fi that wasn't good science fiction.
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  #22  
Old 2010-09-30, 16:20
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@Lightwing: SS2 has no comparison to these new generation of games (bioshock and bioshock Infinite). SS2 was a different proposal, and it had a consist storyline based on SS1, and was a legitimate successor of it.

Now, bioshock is a totally new (more bizarre, freakier, scarier, evil and twisted) different thing, the start of a new direction the company's settling into (even if they somehow relate it as a predecessor of SS2). SS2 didn't go that far into weirdness, all we had was a spaceship infected by a virus which created hybrid creatures - perfectly fine plot for me. And the gameplay was quite different too - in SS2 you had lots of stealth (using Thief's marvelous stealth engine), and it was also the first game to mix pure FPS with RPG. It was not a fast-paced SFX-freakshow like it is now.
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Old 2010-10-01, 12:52
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I heard a rumor somewhere that the guy you're playing in this game is Andrew Ryan. And I love the fact that Rapture wasn't build by the same people, but by one of it's inhabitants that just wanted that old feeling back.
Anyway I don't know if it's true, but if it is, I really really love the storyline. I had a similar feeling when watching Lost - especially the others (who have a complete village/island/organization, in complete secret of the rest of the world)
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Old 2010-10-01, 20:06
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Quote:
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Your opinion. I loved it. Played both games a couple of times - and for me that's a benchmark of a good game - replay value.
I have to side with Darkflame on this one. If Mass Effect's storyline was a movie, it would appear on Sci-Fi's Movie Originals night. It's just..very generic dime a dozen stuff. As for the gameplay, that's another matter, but if you are talking about plot, concept, and dialogue then I wouldn't give that game any special notice.

Granted, you don't really play games for the story. So I'll give you that.

Last edited by Lightwing; 2010-10-01 at 20:34.
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  #25  
Old 2010-10-01, 22:30
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Quote:
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I heard a rumor somewhere that the guy you're playing in this game is Andrew Ryan. And I love the fact that Rapture wasn't build by the same people, but by one of it's inhabitants that just wanted that old feeling back.
Anyway I don't know if it's true, but if it is, I really really love the storyline. I had a similar feeling when watching Lost - especially the others (who have a complete village/island/organization, in complete secret of the rest of the world)
^ This!
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