How does lba Stand up to the.... (read further)

[Neko]

New RPG games and such?

I am talking about this:
If you take away the music of lba1, is the game still standing strong compared to modern day adventures/RPG ?

Compare the game to FF7, SOM2, chrono trigger even.... all games that are made in the same days as lba (more or less), but they all have somewhat more to offer in my opinion.

So...there you have it:
The gameplay was good for 1994, but I doubt it is still strong compared to the newer games. This may not be so important, but I think we should not praise the game too much. If we keep realistic and point out the weaker spots of lba1, we can make sure Fred is not going to make lba3 with the same weakspots as the previous lba games: While the good points must stay, like the movement and the magicball movements, the bad points of both games :
LBA1:
1. average story
2. Graphics (ok this got a lot better in lba2 I admit)
3. Voiceactors (this only counts for lba2, they weren't so good).
4. No conversation (Hell! A bit more RPG would be nice, the conversation is REALLY minimal in lba1).
5. Easy endboss.
Should be 'fixed' if there would ever be a lba3.

Now let's move on to the 97 game shall we?
The graphics got fixed...aplaude!
The music was still strong, Great!
The gameplay got better, Neat!
The storyline was pretty nice even, good job!
The conversation was upgraded to 'positive', as it should be.
Twinsen moves the same ! Same Engine for the movement (That was awesome!).

These things are the improvements made in 3 years, but there are still a few things that bother me:
1. Childish, Childish, childish...no suspense, way too happy.
2. No other islands from the original..(Be ashamed....)
3. Voiceactors are ok, but they lack the funny sound the rabbibunies had in 1...Twinsen is suddenly 'American' hmmmm weird?
4. The endboss could be killed by the lightning spell.
5. No 'feeling' with Zeelich...this ain't LBA.
6. No interaction with rebellion squads...that would be so cool:
When Twinsun is taken over yet again, why not launch an atack to the Hamalyi again, in full 3d with the rebels? That was a great oppertunity!
7. no connection with previous game....it just wasn't the same.
8. Bu got screwed.

So...if Fred is reading this:
Respect to you, it's been a long time I spoke to you. This is just a list to show you the things that could help making the next game (yeah I expect it to be made somehow...it is just something that has to happen you know? : ) THE ultimate game ever.
We fans love the games so much, that we would not dare discuss the minor weakpoints of it. That's why I thought it would be handy if we put them on a list, so the next game Cannot be a dissapointment (Lba 2 was somehow, a little bit because of the above things), and a dissapointment after 5 years would be a waste of time would it not?

I am pretty optimistic, and I believe the next game is going to be a massive hit....can't wait for it.

Just imagine:
LBA 3, a game with the newest graphics...with the same gameplay (I mean how Twinsen moves), same magic ball, all the original islands....music from both the previous games and new tracks...(the old for the feeling), and then A LOT more RPG in it...more suspense...more feeling...
And funfrock behind it...or not...(as long as he appears somehow it would rock).

[kaderoboy]

Hm, well LBA doesn't exactly fit into the RPG genre (no RPG-style combat etc.)

In my opinion, the graphics in both games were fine, even to play at today's standards.

The voice actors were indeed pretty weak, but then again who'd want to act for a French game called Little Big Adventure from an unknown company back in 1994

The fact that conversation was slightly limited in LBA1 added up to the suspense atmosphere of the game so it didn't suck too much

Yeah Funfrock was a bit easier than expected, you could use Zoe etc. to shield you easily, perhaps Adeline were afraid that increasing the bosses difficulty might make the game too hard for some.

[Twinsal]

How could there suddenly be other islands? But you are sooo right about Zeelich. They had .........well, "nothing". No disco, no library or museum, barely houses and I wonder where everyone lives.

[Panda]

FF7 is a great RPg, and for those of you who have played FFx, i think that its great to. Lba is however less exciting to play than ff7 in my opinion. ff7 is one of those games that u can play 50 times and discover new things. it has kind of unreal characters and graphics, but they make it all more playable if you ask me. Golden sun is also great, althought not reallty comparable to lba

[Axx]

hmm.. jesse this one was a good idea

i look at it like this..
the reason i love lba is the felling i get when playing it.. its, after thinking about it, the peacefullness.. the parts were you walk into this large grassland with a symbol.. then it mixes this peacefullness with war.. hundreds of clones moving from behind the walls to kill you .. that was what made me like it.. the music played.. as i believe, one of the biggest roles.. it made this feeling of triumph more and more realistic.. also the small reminders of playing a game.. your focused on this world.. saving it.. and playing twinsens role..


other than that.. i never cared much about the weakpoints.. because i simply dont notice them.. yeah they exsist and it would be better to fix them..

As for lba2.. i agree.. zeelich just wasnt lba.. but in the end it was ok because you cant have an lba world all the time or people are going to get bored..

in lba2 the islands became so much smaller.. i didnt like that.. and there are far less people.. in lba1 all the time people are walking around.. in lba2 they all disappeared

to be continued...

[Snapman]

Yes Jesse, you're right. The game doesn't need more cut-scence, text and speech in it to give the game more feeling. That's probably one feature that always pissed me off about LBA, the fact that very little speech interaction took place, and at times it felt like Twinsen had no personality, and was just running around at the orders of other people.

If LBA3 is made, the charecter development needs major work. Twinsen is a pretty weak charecter that lacks and development during the 2 games. This should be sorted out in LBA3 so it would be able to compete with today's games.

Also, another thing with LBA3, is that it shouldn't just be another reworled version of LBA1. I mean, LBA2 was great fun, but apart from the vastly impoved speech and graphics, it was just the same as LBA1, but with a different story. It offered nothing new, apart from a couple of spells which made the game very easy. LBA3 should have brand new features, and the gameplay should evolve, not stay the same.


So I think those are the main two areas that could be improved on if LBA3 ever comes into existance. Maybe these suggestions would work in Trium Planeta also.

[Neko]

Twinsal:

What I meant was that the original LBA let you travel all the islands of the planet, and get to the other Hemisphere.

In LBA 2 you can only visit Desert Island and Citadel Island...what happened to:
Proxima island,
principal island,
Rebellion Island
The Hamalyi
Brundle Island
Tippet Island (3d Funky town is to die for )
Polar/Fortress island.

all these places are so LBA-ish, they need to get back.

Dump Zeelich, it is a weak place.

------------
Snapman:
That was the cool thing, if Twinsen in lba3 throws his magicball with different effects I will loose the feeling with it. The basis should remain, and from there you can expand it.
The magic ball must work EXACTLY the same as in the previous games...to add something to it:
You can add extra weapons, extra movements, more behaviour things...as long as the original movements remain the same with the same sounds-------> connection with the previous game.
Twinsen should not suddenly be faster or get a totally different behaviour menu, that would suck...would be a waste of time then to make the third game.

come on Fred,, make the game please....
We need funkytown in 3d (get A few good prodigy songs to match the atmosphere )

[Twinsal]

No, Zeelich is a nice place, but I think they should work on it, add things, change things.

[Neko]

As long as they Include Twinsun, concentrate on Twinsun the most it is ok. Zeelich got fixed up anyway, must be looking pretty sharp now.

[Double-J]

/me agrees with Jesse 100%.......

Actually, I think it needs two more things:

Better/New Ball Physics: Dare I say the magic ball could be directed specifically, perhaps by a Z-Target type system? Or the ball could travel by movements of keystrokes. Very cool, imho.

More "magic": Yes. That whole magic meter for 2 spells. Great. Grand. Thanksalot. 1st- Get rid of the all powerful lighting spell, or save it for the end of the game. 2nd- Protection spell is good.....keep it..... 3rd- Now, why can't we have enemy or environment specific spells? A fire spell against ice enemies, or like in LoZ, can be used to burn trees and such to find hidden areas?

Just some thoughts............

[Twinsal]

DJ>I like the specific spells part but I think that if people don't like the LS, those people only shouldn't use it. But they mustn't let it grow like the MB anymore.

Jesse> If they didn't include Twinsun, I wonder if people would call it LBA.

[kaderoboy]

Hm, dump the manual weapons and add some extra spells to expand on Twinsen's magic cababilites Since he is the planets propher and a magician no doubt he should be able to learn magic, he just hasn't figuered out yet, we got an example of this when Sendell charged up his powers in LBA2 and 1

It was a shame not to get to see the other LBA1 islands in 3d, I guess Adeline did a favour showing us Citadel in 3d, but then Zeelich should have been left out

[Kieron]

sorry, jesse, but i disagree 100%!

i don't think LBA is an RPG, really. it's an adventure game! (or you could call it an action-adventure, but that term is nowadays used for games like tomb raider and jedi knight, which i would just call action games ) and personally i don't like RPGs - i prefer to get down into the storyline and puzzles and action of a game without having to mess with statistics and levels and stuff. i think it;s a huge detraction from realism and from immersion in the game. maybe if it was handled in a realistic way (i.e. if you had complex levels and stats and abilities or whatever, but they were all handled by the computer and you didn't get to see them)... but it virtually never is.

so i don't think you can compare it to other RPGs, since it was never designed to be as complex as most RPGs (especially FF!). you can compare it to proper adventures like Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey (though they're still not really the same) - then the storyline, gameplay and other elements compare very very well IMO.

i also disagree with:

(both games) "1. Childish, Childish, childish...no suspense, way too happy. "

LBA1 had a lot of suspense and in places was quite dark, even though the graphics weren't realistic. (but i don't think that makes it childish.)

(both games) "2. No other islands from the original..(Be ashamed....) "
(both games) "5. No 'feeling' with Zeelich...this ain't LBA. "
(both games) "7. no connection with previous game....it just wasn't the same. "

i would have loved to see the old islands, but the new world and 'feeling' of zeelich was what stopped it from being just a boring samey sequel, like tomb raider.

(both games) "3. Voiceactors are ok, but they lack the funny sound the rabbibunies had in 1...Twinsen is suddenly 'American' hmmmm weird? "

agree about twinsen, but the rabbibunnies were always american

(LBA1) "2. Graphics (ok this got a lot better in lba2 I admit) "

i think the graphics were better in LBA1, since they were much prettier pre-rendered (obviously). the technology of LBA2 meant that they had to sacrifice quality to have a fashionable realtime engine

(LBA1) "4. No conversation (Hell! A bit more RPG would be nice, the conversation is REALLY minimal in lba1). "

as i said, LBA isn't an RPG and conversation isn't really the style IMO.

(LBA2) "The music was still strong, Great! "

i thought the LBA1 soundtrack was brilliant, and parts of the LBA2 soundtrack were good (i.e. those parts that were similar in style to the LBA1 soundtrack, like the empire theme). but i thought parts of it were horrific (like the popped-up version of the LBA theme. aaaaaaaaaargh! i can't stand it! )

(LBA2) "The gameplay got better, Neat! "

i think it was more or less the same, except for the whole banging-into-walls thing. then again, the puzzles were easier, and the game was shorter and a bit more linear, so maybe the gameplay wasn't as good. i'm thinking in adventuring terms here, not in RPGing terms. if you think in RPGing terms, maybe the gameplay was better, because you got to learn spells and your magic level actually meant something important.

---

so basically, i think LBA1 is as good as, or better than, the most similar new games that are coming out nowadays, in all the ways that matter to me at least.

[Kieron]

i would like to thank jesse for posting this - the first really interesting topic (in General at least) for a looooooong time

[Gustav Sweden]

Compared to those RPGs you mentioned I must say that LBA1 really is not ageing at one point. The battle system. The Random Encounter system is some kind of oldie from the early 80s when the first, primitive, D&D RPGs were made. If you look at all those new RPGs (FF in particular) they are pretty much the same as the old ones. The only difference lay in size, graphics and other cosmetical content.

I want to thank Gillian Seed for confirming my theories and encouraging me to write the mentioned part of the post.

I have to disagree with you, Jesse on the Zeelich part. I don't know, but sometimes I think that it is the absoluteley best part of LBA. I think that the Twinsun part of LBA2 was clearly underprestating (or how you say it), imagine the whole game running around at those islands. (I dont know if this is my true opinion, cause I just thought of it and haven't had time to reflect it).

Thinking about it, the thing that I was most unsatisfied with in LBA2 was that we didnt get the oppurtunity to travel Principal, Tippett and the others again...


Btw. Nice Topic Title

[Neko]

Originally posted by Kieron
sorry, jesse, but i disagree 100%!

i don't think LBA is an RPG, really. it's an adventure game! (or you could call it an action-adventure, but that term is nowadays used for games like tomb raider and jedi knight, which i would just call action games ) and personally i don't like RPGs - i prefer to get down into the storyline and puzzles and action of a game without having to mess with statistics and levels and stuff. i think it;s a huge detraction from realism and from immersion in the game. maybe if it was handled in a realistic way (i.e. if you had complex levels and stats and abilities or whatever, but they were all handled by the computer and you didn't get to see them)... but it virtually never is.
so i don't think you can compare it to other RPGs, since it was never designed to be as complex as most RPGs (especially FF!). you can compare it to proper adventures like Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey (though they're still not really the same) - then the storyline, gameplay and other elements compare very very well IMO.

alright, let's debate.
It is not important wether LBA is RPG or not. Fact remains that the whole thing could use some extra stuff like for example the dialogue. It does not need to be RPG to get decent dialogue and a decent storyline now does it?

A good plot is basicly what lba3 needs.

Alright, before we go to the next quote:
You make one fatal mistake:
You asume all the negative points count for Both games. Which is absolutely bull, where do you get this 'Both games' statement anyway?

*Note: I'll put (K) before the line he says and I'll put (J) before my counterline, since I am to lazy to keep on Coding my message.

(K):i also disagree with:

(both games) "1. Childish, Childish, childish...no suspense, way too happy. "
LBA1 had a lot of suspense and in places was quite dark, even though the graphics weren't realistic. (but i don't think that makes it childish.)

(J): LBA2 I am talking about here...... Twinsun and all the sunshine and the happy stars NOT childish?

(both games) "2. No other islands from the original..(Be ashamed....) "
(both games) "5. No 'feeling' with Zeelich...this ain't LBA. "
(both games) "7. no connection with previous game....it just wasn't the same. "

(K):
i would have loved to see the old islands, but the new world and 'feeling' of zeelich was what stopped it from being just a boring samey sequel, like tomb raider.
(both games) "3. Voiceactors are ok, but they lack the funny sound the rabbibunies had in 1...Twinsen is suddenly 'American' hmmmm weird? "
agree about twinsen, but the rabbibunnies were always american

(J):
The Feeling of Zeelich is what made it interesting? well, it was the Zeelich thing that made it a damn dissapointment....Twinsun was the most interesting thing, the idea of 3d Twinsun is incredible...the thing that makes me want a lba3.
I am not asking lba3 to be on other worlds...just use the potention Twinsun has.
About the Rabbi's:
I just meant in lba2 their voices were not as good as in 1...the 'american' voice statement only counted for Twinsen.

K:
(LBA1) "2. Graphics (ok this got a lot better in lba2 I admit) "
i think the graphics were better in LBA1, since they were much prettier pre-rendered (obviously). the technology of LBA2 meant that they had to sacrifice quality to have a fashionable realtime engine
J:
What the? Better graphics in lba1? I do not know what you are talking about, maybe a Dutch guy who knows Graphics can explain this one to me.

K:
(LBA1) "4. No conversation (Hell! A bit more RPG would be nice, the conversation is REALLY minimal in lba1). "
as i said, LBA isn't an RPG and conversation isn't really the style IMO.

J:
RPG style is just an example...an example which can make lba3 better. More plot, more story, more dialogue, more puzles, more interaction...That my friend is improvement. You did not wanted a boring next game right?
LBA has obvious RPG elemtents...and should 'borrow' some more of it, so we can have the ultimate game. Ever since thelaser was introduced, LBA was not only adventure...but shoot em up as well Now with the improvements I mentioned earlier it can kick ass,

K:
(LBA2) "The music was still strong, Great! "

i thought the LBA1 soundtrack was brilliant, and parts of the LBA2 soundtrack were good (i.e. those parts that were similar in style to the LBA1 soundtrack, like the empire theme). but i thought parts of it were horrific (like the popped-up version of the LBA theme. aaaaaaaaaargh! i can't stand it! )

J:
It wasn't so bad, and:
The intro track is amazing....Zeelich the celebration track and the emerald moon track are amazing as well.
(LBA2) "The gameplay got better, Neat! "

K:i think it was more or less the same, except for the whole banging-into-walls thing. then again, the puzzles were easier, and the game was shorter and a bit more linear, so maybe the gameplay wasn't as good. i'm thinking in adventuring terms here, not in RPGing terms. if you think in RPGing terms, maybe the gameplay was better, because you got to learn spells and your magic level actually meant something important.

J:
Listen..I don't want to have a level system, or a rpg comebat system or anything like it. When I say RPG I more try to explain it like Zelda....in terms of story, dialogue etc etc....
Not the gameplay.
LBA2 features more weapons and more interesting things like jumping while running and the car.
---

K:
so basically, i think LBA1 is as good as, or better than, the most similar new games that are coming out nowadays, in all the ways that matter to me at least.

J:
Ok mate, I just say I do not want the following things:
1. A totally different magic ball movement (it was good it was the same in lba2)
2. The same dialogue, no real sidestories and character development.
3. Only citadel island and desert island.
4. Citadel island being even MORE childish.
5. A Twinsun which is so damn asy to take over (Why no rebellion movements when the aliens took it huh? no time, no money, and no interest probaly....)

[Double-J]

I don't want a totally different physics engine for the magic ball, but a targeting system would be nice. And why can't Twinsen use the "force" to move the ball where he wants? He's a wizard, isn't he?

[Snapman]

Same battle system is good, it just needs improving. Wizards use spells right? I think the addition of spells would be useful and could make the game a little more tactical. For example, when Twinsen uses a spell of an element, it fires a fireball or shards of ice in only the direction he is facing. Some enemies could be weak and strong against certain types of elements. It would add more depth to the current battle system.

Also, more dialogue and charecter development is badly needed.

[Kieron]

heh, jesse i should have used proper quotes but i... couldn't be bothered oh well

it's basically just that you said you were comparing it to new RPGs and FF7 and such, and i just don't really want LBA3 to go in that direction gameplay-wise

[Panda]

i think diablo is a good example of a adventure game....
well, more of a hack n slash actually but hey

[Kieron]

i think diablo's an RPG too

[NightShadow]

Diablo & Diablo II are action RPG...
They are great games (I own them both), but lack the detail of true RPG's, and sucks as a plain action game... Not that I don't like them, but... I prefer other kind of games.

LBA is an adventure game... I don't care If I don't control twinsen with the mouse... who cares... the interface is great, and I felt almost the same as if I was playing any other adventure game (Monkey Island, Sam&Max, etc).

It's the feeling that counts for me...

I don't care for BIG FAST EXPLENDID 3D graphics... to be true I hate Tomb Raider... (like UT though :-)))

wether you like it or not LBA has attained the status of a true classic... and that is a hard status to get... only the very best make it to the top... and Adeline hit the spot with LBA...

Do not try to add complexity to LBA for it is in his simplicity that relies it's most valuable point...
Make LBA3... yes.
Make it :

Simple (interface)
3D (pleeeeease try to avoid creating another tomb raider clone)
Good plot
Lots of places to visit
....

Ah... I forgot to mention one thing... LBA's almost childish story is other of those things that make it different... I love fantasy... Real life reality already sucks big time...

[Lightwing]

"With a plot that seems neverending, Twinsen's Odyssey makes for an above average adventure game with some good action and great development. Generally the plot was pretty interesting, and it kept me playing. It wouldn't describe it as addictive like other adventure titles such as Azrael's Tear or Myst, but I like the way the designers set up the adventure. It was always apparent what you had to do and what your next move was, but to accomplish the task, you must use your memory, creativity, and have a tolerance for a little bit of exploring here and there. As a matter of fact, the main, substantial complaint I have about this game is that the plot is too childish. There were too many bouncy people, animals that can talk, flying dragons, wizards, and stupid looking aliens cruising around in flying saucers for my taste. I tend to like a more serious-natured, mysterious, somewhat realistic adventure game, even if it is fantasy or futuristic."

"I didn't like the sounds very much at all. The miscellaneous game sounds were generic and the voices were VERY annoying. I'm so glad they included a mood which let's you hit people, it sure came in handy beating the hell out of all the high-pitched, squeaky, spine tingling, brain chilling, glass shattering, diamond carving voices. Someone must have had broccoli stuffed in their ears when they recorded these sounds. Thankfully, the soundtrack is a lot better."

More here

I post this review because it points out a lot of things about the game's level of maturity. What the guy did not grasp was that the animal's didn't JUST talk, Twinsen was just able to understand that. But they didn't explain it too well in LBA2 so I don't blame him.

[Gustav Sweden]

I would hate LBA if it was mousecontrolled. You dont get the same in-game-feeling with a mouse as you do with a gamepad or keyboard.

[Neko]

Originally posted by Kieron
heh, jesse i should have used proper quotes but i... couldn't be bothered oh well

it's basically just that you said you were comparing it to new RPGs and FF7 and such, and i just don't really want LBA3 to go in that direction gameplay-wise

amen, I just could not find similar games to lba, since I am not a gamer.