Opinions - Israeli student banned from studying at Oxford.

Lgr · #1 2003-10-28, 21:51

What do you Israelis (and others) make of this story?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/3218849.stm

Lgr · #2 2003-10-28, 21:57

Here's the email from the Professor in full:

Quote:

Dear Amit Duvshani,

Thank you for contacting me, but I don't think this would work. I have a huge problem with the way that the Israelis take the moral high ground from their appalling treatment in the Holocaust, and then inflict gross human rights abuses on the Palestinians because they (the Palestinians) wish to live in their own country.

I am sure that you are perfectly nice at a personal level, but no way would I take on somebody who had served in the Israeli army. As you may be aware, I am not the only UK scientist with these views but I'm sure you will find another suitable lab if you look around.

Yours sincerely,
Andrew Wilkie

Reek · #3 2003-10-28, 22:25

Let's ignore that fact that i'm israeli -- I think that proffesor is not very "intelligent" in filling his duty as someone incharge on appilcants.

Also, if he thinks the israeli army is somehow different, or less moral than your average army, he lacks knowledge on the subject.

Lgr · #4 2003-10-28, 22:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Anakin
Let's ignore that fact that i'm israeli -- I think that proffesor is not very "intelligent" in filling his duty as someone incharge on appilcants.

Also, if he thinks the israeli army is somehow different, or less moral than your average army, he lacks knowledge on the subject.

Exactly...I'm glad he has been suspended. There is no room for discrimination in any walk of life.

*Gustav Sweden* · #5 2003-10-28, 22:41

What a wonderful monologue thread you got here lgr!

Most probably that professor thinks that you choose to join the israeli army if you want to go and kill some palestinians, which is wrong. So Id say that he is badly educated.

*Atresica* · #6 2003-10-28, 23:45

Amazing, these kind of biased people can become professors these days?
Well, at least he's kicked out.

Cloneguy · #7 2003-10-29, 00:53

It's discrimination, and there's no place for discrimination in a university.

Boo · #8 2003-10-29, 06:52

There shouldn't be descrimination anywhere, but it's life and it is what we have to deal with.

*Atresica* · #9 2003-10-29, 12:06

That's a really stupid remark.
"Oh there's racism, we should just learn to live with it instead of changing it"

yes, very very wise...

*morshem* · #10 2003-10-29, 12:17

Yeah... exactly the opposite of what I've been taught for years at Hashomer Hatzair...

Lgr · #11 2003-10-29, 12:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
There shouldn't be descrimination anywhere, but it's life and it is what we have to deal with.

Instead of learning to deal with it, should we not try to stamp it out?

Panda · #12 2003-10-29, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Atresica
That's a really stupid remark.
"Oh there's racism, we should just learn to live with it instead of changing it"

yes, very very wise...

Everyone has prejudices. Its when they're put into discrimination that it becomes a problem.

Racism should be tackled, have punishments, but its going to be impossible to stamp it out completely. There is always going to be that part of society which will carry on.

As for more on topic, I totally disagree with what the professor is saying. Someone with his high status should be ENCOURAGING foreign students to come here and learn, not the opposite. In a country where joining the armed forces is a requirement, then, you should not hold it against a person. And in a country, (here) which boasts equality, well, its a very contravercial issue.

*Gustav Sweden* · #13 2003-10-29, 13:40

Quote:

Originally posted by morshem
Yeah... exactly the opposite of what I've been taught for years at Hashomer Hatzair...

Is that in Mordor?

Pandemona: If we think that it always will be we cant stop it? Nothing is impossible, according to me, and deleting racism is not impossible either.

Boo · #14 2003-10-29, 17:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Atresica
That's a really stupid remark.
"Oh there's racism, we should just learn to live with it instead of changing it"

yes, very very wise...

Uh, that's not what I said at all. You might have read it wrong but I never said we shouldn't try and change it. I'm saying that now, we have to deal with it, and it is life no matter how much you don't want it to be.

Also, I think it's "stupid" to misinterpret a persons comment and then disagree with it just because.

*morshem* · #15 2003-10-29, 18:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Gustav Sweden
Is that in Mordor?

Eh... Hashomer Hatzair was founded 91 years ago, and it's a worldwide youth movement...

Reek · #16 2003-10-29, 18:10

Oh, so it's not JUST in mordor, it's in many other places

Boo · #17 2003-10-29, 18:24

Anyway, about the email. I think the Professor put his personal feelings about the Israeli army into the issue and forgot that he is a teacher, and that's all he was asked to do. I've had teachers that are like that, and they were all close-minded. I don't think he was really a bad person, he was just stupid.

*Atresica* · #18 2003-10-29, 22:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
Uh, that's not what I said at all. You might have read it wrong but I never said we shouldn't try and change it. I'm saying that now, we have to deal with it, and it is life no matter how much you don't want it to be.

Also, I think it's "stupid" to misinterpret a persons comment and then disagree with it just because.

Erm, the point of misunderstanding is that you misunderstand someone. If I misunderstood you, I react on that what I misunderstood, not on the thing that was actually going on.

So basically, how can it be stupid of me to react that way if I misinterpretated this comment or do you think I just disagree with you because I like to disagree?

Boo · #19 2003-10-29, 22:23

I'm just saying that you shouldn't have changed what I said into something that it wasn't. Also, it would have been better if you asked what I meant by it. But it's all good, we all is homies here. n_n

*Gustav Sweden* · #20 2003-10-29, 22:36

Morshem, so its like Sauron Jugend then? Im also in, I call myself Gorbag.

Robrecht · #21 2003-10-29, 23:44

While I agree it would have been wrong if this guy was turned down for being an Israeli, but he wasn't, he was turned down for being a soldier in a military that -HAS- committed several questionable acts...

It's still not 'right', but if this professor says hey can't teach a soldier of country because of a war that country is waging (and let's not kid ourselves, this is a war being waged), then I commend him on standing up for his principals...

Let me just forget for a second that I'm a noob here and act as if I'm a vet:

Stop all the talk of racism! This is NOT, NOT, NOT a case of racism. While I'll go so far as to admit that this person is being discrminated against because of his JOB, it has very little to do with his nationality.

And to all the people who jump up and scream hell and murder every time someone farts in the general direction of a jew or black person or woman or any other group that has been oppresed need to learn something: the world is not against you, stop pretending it is.

Cloneguy · #22 2003-10-29, 23:49

I agree, this is not racism.
It is however discrimination, I don't think that's allowed.

But it is brave of the professor to stand up for what he believes in (not letting people that have served in an army that opresses people)

Lgr · #23 2003-10-29, 23:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Robrecht
While I agree it would have been wrong if this guy was turned down for being an Israeli, but he wasn't, he was turned down for being a soldier in a military that -HAS- committed several questionable acts...

It's still not 'right', but if this professor says hey can't teach a soldier of country because of a war that country is waging (and let's not kid ourselves, this is a war being waged), then I commend him on standing up for his principals...

Let me just forget for a second that I'm a noob here and act as if I'm a vet:

Stop all the talk of racism! This is NOT, NOT, NOT a case of racism. While I'll go so far as to admit that this person is being discrminated against because of his JOB, it has very little to do with his nationality.

And to all the people who jump up and scream hell and murder every time someone farts in the general direction of a jew or black person or woman or any other group that has been oppresed need to learn something: the world is not against you, stop pretending it is.

That's all very well but all Israelis have to serve in the IDF, so it is a question of nationality.

Robrecht · #24 2003-10-29, 23:58

It's not that Professor's fault that Israel has a horribly strict military drafting procedure.
And it's not the Israeli student's fault either.
But never the less the student was refused by the professor due to his militairy past, which the professor could not accept. Not because of his nationality.

That's why I said it's not right.

Besides the guy can always apply to another professor...

Lgr · #25 2003-10-30, 00:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Robrecht
It's not that Professor's fault that Israel has military drafting.
And it's not the Israeli student's fault either.

That's why I said it's not right.

Besides the guy can always apply to another Professor...

You missed the point. He refused the student entry on the grounds that the he had served in the IDF, which all Israelis have to do, so essentially he refused the student entry because he was Israeli.
You also missed the point that this is an academic institution and students should be admitted based soley on academic potential, not on political viewpoints and / or actions.