Have you ever: paranormal edition

[Double-J]

With the general success of the Era of Good Feelings™ and my fruits/veggies thread, I was thinking of a new series of threads that might generate further discussion that maybe we haven't touched on here.

In this vein, I thought we could combine want for discussion with personal stories and input. Toward this end, I'd like to introduce...Have you ever: paranormal edition. Basically, share any stories of weird, unexplained, or supernatural occurrences you've personally witnessed or alternatively, if you live somewhere that is noted for this type of activity.

Personally, I don't feel like I've ever encountered anything supernatural in the sense of seeing a ghost or something toward this end. However, I find the casual study of these sort of things, and in particular, attempting to debunk and/or look into the historical origins of such stories, to be really interesting. I also really enjoy analyzing and debating the validity of purported ghost photos. One of my favorites:





In both cases, these photos were taken years after those who appear - in this case, the old lady in the backseat, and the man standing behind the woman, respectively - were deceased. Or so they claim.

Thoughts? Ideas? Share?

[Jasiek]

Well since there are no ghosts, or the existence of them hasn't been proven in double blind trials, someone is either imagining things, or misconstruing something.

I however have a weird family story!

In 1956 my grandparents where coming down from this mountain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasprowy_Wierch

through this valley:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBleb_Marcinowskich

And since it was getting dark and my grandmother had twisted her ankle they stopped at this tourist mountain hut. But when she was arranging their stay, my grandfather started freaking out and wanted to continue down to the town. So grudgingly, she left with him, they got down and boarder a train - and obviously she was extremely pissed at him.

When they got out from the train in Krakow they read in a newspaper that during the night an avalanche came down and there wasn't a stone left standing from the hut, none of the five occupants (the married couple who ran it, and three border patrol soldiers) have survived.


True story.

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by Jasiek

Well since there are no ghosts, or the existence of them hasn't been proven in double blind trials, someone is either imagining things, or misconstruing something.

While my original intent wasn't to go into eschatology, you bring up an interesting point. Perhaps this would be another area to generate discussion in this thread as well!

Originally Posted by Jasiek

I however have a weird family story!

In 1956 my grandparents where coming down from this mountain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasprowy_Wierch

through this valley:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBleb_Marcinowskich

And since it was getting dark and my grandmother had twisted her ankle they stopped at this tourist mountain hut. But when she was arranging their stay, my grandfather started freaking out and wanted to continue down to the town. So grudgingly, she left with him, they got down and boarder a train - and obviously she was extremely pissed at him.

When they got out from the train in Krakow they read in a newspaper that during the night an avalanche came down and there wasn't a stone left standing from the hut, none of the five occupants (the married couple who ran it, and three border patrol soldiers) have survived.


True story.

Now that is crazy/cool. Did your grandfather ever explain if he felt some sort of premonition or was he just concerned about continuing on their journey?

[Jasiek]

Nope, he just had an extremely bad feeling about staying.

[Streg]

I believe in bad feelings. More than once I had the "bad feeling" about going somewhere, and something bad happened in that place I was supposed to be. Jasiek's story is very weird/interesting

[Darkflame]

Indeed.
Though I definitely dont believe anything as true without good scientifically acceptable evidence, I still think theres huge possibilities out there for aspects of physics and reality simply not yet discovered or understood.

[Jasiek]

Well, I just sort of treat that as an example of very good intuition in the family.

There's a few more examples like that in the family, one with one of my grandfathers sisters, who had a very bad feeling about taking a route home under some bridge, despite her friends nagging about taking it, only to find out the bridge had been bombed by ze germans...

So I generally think they just intuitively - without consciously realizing it pick up on some signs, and that manifests as an extremely uncomfortable feeling when a particular choice is considered. Or maybe that plus some intuitive grasp on statistics.

No supernatural mumbo jumbo needed there.

[Neko]

When my cat had a huge bump above his eye I missaid "we need to take him to the veterinarian" 3 times in the course of 3 days. I kept accidently saying "we need to take him to see the dentist".

We took him to the emergency vet the first day, they gave him medicine for swollen eye.

We took him to another emergency vet the next day when it got worse (it started at saturday and the regular vet is closed in weekends).

When it got even worse again, we could take him to the regular vet. She found out that he had an infected tooth ! this caused the swelling, because it was a tooth way back in his mouth and the swelling pushed upwards.

[Darkflame]

Originally Posted by Jasiek

Well, I just sort of treat that as an example of very good intuition in the family.

There's a few more examples like that in the family, one with one of my grandfathers sisters, who had a very bad feeling about taking a route home under some bridge, despite her friends nagging about taking it, only to find out the bridge had been bombed by ze germans...

So I generally think they just intuitively - without consciously realizing it pick up on some signs, and that manifests as an extremely uncomfortable feeling when a particular choice is considered. Or maybe that plus some intuitive grasp on statistics.

Theres certainly been research showing our subsconious can reach conclusions faster then we can. In some cases, we can "know" the right answer and only then work it out. I cant find the research now, but it was for some simple problems the "gut instinct" actual gave better results then people working things out. (only in specific case's, of course, but it did show the power of the mind)

That said,
I think that can certainly explain a lot, but not everything - at least not without things that (to me) would seem more unlikely then unexplained natural stuff.
For example, if (and this is a if) there are case's of specific weather prediction - events like lightening strikes or freak storms, or anything in a very localized area (not just a general trend) - I am not sure the brain would have the capacity too predict it no mater how much data it has.
The choatic nature of weather takes a HUGE amount of power too even vaguely predict by machines. Potentially our brain can do better, but still, only averages over large areas.

More "psydo-science" explanations I think are still worth considering in these case's as possibilities as long as they are self-consistant.
One idea I had is that possibily some people have concious's that are somewhat spread out over time. Maybe (somehow) the electromagnatism of their brains leaks backwards a bit. We still know very little about consciousness - why we perceive the present as a ever moving point at all.

We know the past and future exist at least as a special construct, thanks to Einstein and those great experiments with atomic clocks on planes.
I dont think its impossible that some form of energy,radiation or field could spread out though the temporal axis.

Thats not too say it cant be impossible, merely I dont think its proved impossible yet, and thus remains as a possibility

Remember also a lot of "supernatural" events of the past are now well understood by science so while we should dismiss explanations without prove, we shouldn't automaticaly dismiss the events themselves.

[Odysseus]

Dreamed of someone I didnt see for at least a decade, and dont even recall the name of. Then later hear he died that week. I wasnt even ever close to this person.
The whole thing didn't make me believe in typical ghosts visitings or anything.
Just kinda weird.

As for avalanches, perhaps there are conditions some might pick up on. Not saying there is a typical smell that might precede an avalanche. But whatever the signs might be, seems there is evolutionary benefit to pick up on it/them as disturbing.
If it was a tiny earthquake that triggerd it at least those often are preceded by some local rumble in the electromagnetic field. We can notice those in ways.

Another thing about senses is that the "accepted" model of senses doesnt count sense of acceleration/orientation/ballance as one. It would make sense to make that the 6st sense.

[Darkflame]

Indeed, balance is certainly a sense. But then, so is knowing your bladder is full :P The "5 senses" certainly are a oversimplification.

As for avalanches, perhaps there are conditions some might pick up on. Not saying there is a typical smell that might precede an avalanche. But whatever the signs might be, seems there is evolutionary benefit to pick up on it/them as disturbing.
If it was a tiny earthquake that triggerd it at least those often are preceded by some local rumble in the electromagnetic field. We can notice those in ways.

Cats are great at knowing when thunderstorms are coming, ours always hid behind the sofa 5 minutes before.
That was probably air-pressure related I think.

Now, how our cat knew to run to the window a few minutes before my dads car pulled up each day is tricker to explain....

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Darkflame

Indeed, balance is certainly a sense. But then, so is knowing your bladder is full :P The "5 senses" certainly are a oversimplification.

You would agree that would be in another category. And yes all of these are just touch in a way.

Cats are great at knowing when thunderstorms are coming, ours always hid behind the sofa 5 minutes before.
That was probably air-pressure related I think.


Now, how our cat knew to run to the window a few minutes before my dads car pulled up each day is tricker to explain....

There is a google-talk out there with that last subject...
Hehe, if i run into it might post it.

[Darkflame]

Well, if touch is heat,pain and pressure that covers a lot.
Hunger and thirst though are probably others.

[Jasiek]

Originally Posted by Darkflame

Cats are great at knowing when thunderstorms are coming, ours always hid behind the sofa 5 minutes before.
That was probably air-pressure related I think.

Now, how our cat knew to run to the window a few minutes before my dads car pulled up each day is tricker to explain....

Do we have dadsign Stilcat?

Usulcat, we have dadsign the likes of which even god haven't seen!

[Polaris]

I know that we have a fluid in our internal ears that is used for balancing, but frankly, I do not find it so good. Set up a scenery htat could trick someone into thinking he is balanced, and he'll believe it (a plane crash occured like that, it was night, the autopilot went off without the pilots noticing, and the flane begun to turn. They didn't notice anything before it was over 90° to the left.)
An other thing to test it yourself, walk by putting your heel right in front of your other feet's toe. Easy, right ? Now do the same but with your eyes closed.

As for paranormal things, there is one which is quite famous, a certain Morgan Robertson has written a book, Wreck of the Titan, telling the story of a ship, the Titan, considered as unsinkable, 800 feet, displacing 75,000 tons, up from 45,000, and sinked, due to an iceberg. Nothing *extraordinary*, but the book was written in 1898, more than 10 years before the Titanic existed


(more information on the plane crash, because I don't find that summary too believable myself )
Spoiler:

toggle spoiler

The pilot's two child where aboard the plane, a little girl and a teenage boy. The autopilot was on, the pilot offered his seat to his girl, asked her to turn the wheel left, he then modified the autopilot's data to head more left, the plane turned left before the girl really did anything with the wheel but had the feeling that she was the one turning. He then did the same with his boy, who really turned the wheel, thus disengaging the autopilot without anyone noticing.
22/23rd of March 1994, Airbus 310 of Aerflot, immatriculated F-OGQS

[Zee]

This reminds me of when me and a friend of mine would go ghost hunting a few years back. That was always fun and spooky as all hell. Always brought a camera with us of course and did end up catching some weird stuff on film a few times.
But my sister and my mother supposedly have some connection with the supernatural. I have all kinds of stories that they've told me. And yeah I believe them and the stuff totally freaked me out. I'm apparentally not open enough to see ghosts and whatnot but my mom used to live with a polterheist, and the stuff she's told me.. omg scary..