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  #1  
Old 2016-06-16, 21:47
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Japanese-language section

I think such a section would be in order. We know that at least LBA 1 was popular enough in Japan that it was fully localized and released for PC, PC-98, FM-Towns, and PS1.
There's also videos of the game being done by the Japanese on NicoVideo:
- http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23198695 ;
- http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19165298 .
And there's several more of them, plus there was (not sure if there still is) a playthrough of the Japanese PS1 version done by a Japanese girl on YouTube too.
And I think we shouldn't expect them to learn English because they simply won't. Most of them don't speak English well and see no real reason to learn it. And since there's no true Japanese LBA 1 community anywhere online yet, I think a Japanese section here would be beneficial.
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  #2  
Old 2016-06-17, 00:56
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While I'm open to ways to spread LBA love, I think that if the forums ever get a second language section, it should definitely be French.
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  #3  
Old 2016-06-17, 01:17
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What makes you think that such a sub-forum really has potential, apart from the fact that... There isn't any yet ?
I mean sure, LBA was localised in Japan and there are videos of it around the net, (and don't get me wrong, an LBA forum to practice my Japanese would be ideal) but what makes you think that all there would really be enough people to create a community, and that they are motivated enough to keep said community alive ?

Plus I don't know how it would actually be feasible, with mods not speaking Japanese and Japanese not speaking English, this could quickly lead to deep misunderstandings...
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  #4  
Old 2016-06-18, 03:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris
with mods not speaking Japanese and Japanese not speaking English, this could quickly lead to deep misunderstandings...
They could always promote someone who speaks enough Japanese to deal with the users. Not to self-plug, but I certainly speak enough Japanese to deal with the users, and have 2 years (and counting) of Moderator experience from another forum (BetaArchive) now.
There's also Lupin, who I think knows some Japanese even though his main specialty is Chinese.
Also, there was a Japanese girl who registered on this forum once, here's the introduction thread: https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=17756 . Sure, she hasn't logged in in a while but discomfort due to the language barrier might have been part of the reason too, who knows.
In any case, the section can be easily removed and the posts moved elsewhere if it doesn't work out.
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  #5  
Old 2016-06-18, 11:20
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I certainly wouldn't mind if the MBN became THE LBA hub for every language speaking person in the world. But I doubt if it works out in practical sense.

I foresee a lot of empty subforums for each language with no one posting there, or rather, just two persons having a private chat.

What I'd rather do is create one subforum with a thread for each language.
What do you guys think?

As for the modding, it'd rely on the 'report post' but you would have to provide translation for us mods to see
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  #6  
Old 2016-06-18, 20:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
What I'd rather do is create one subforum with a thread for each language.
Definitely. There is nowhere near enough traffic to justify major forum changes. The MBN is more of a rural farm than a busy city intersection
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  #7  
Old 2016-07-07, 18:38
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lol
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  #8  
Old 2016-07-16, 12:26
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We have a lot more to gain if we use a single language. We are way stronger community this way.

If they do like LBA, they will join even if they don't know English. It happen before with most LBA members, including me, so I don't see any reason for them not to do it.
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  #9  
Old 2016-07-17, 06:39
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- xesf: Except your native language is Portuguese which is much closer to English than Japanese is. The Japanese grammar is completely different from that of English. They also use completely different writing systems and the only words they have in common are English words that were loaned into Japanese.
Also, the Japanese speaking Japanese, that's how they are, and we should accept that.

Also, let me give you an example for the difference in grammar:
English sentence: We have a lot more to gain if we use a single language.
Portuguese: [Nós] Temos muito mais para ganhar se [nós] usamo um só idioma.
No need for a literal translation back to English as the word order is identical.
Now, Japanese (my Japanese is not perfect, so it might be wrong): 一筋な語を使えば、もっとたくさん得るために。
Transliteration: Hitosuji na go wo tsukaeba, motto takusan eru tame ni.
Literal translation back to English: Single <adj.> language <accusative> use-if, a-lot more gain to <locative>.
Not only is the word order completely reversed, but the sentence uses elements not found in English, while lacking elements found in English such as personal conjugation of verbs, pronouns, etc. And note how they inflect the verb rather than using a separate word for "if".
To a Japanese person, the structure of the English language and the English, or well, general Indo-European, logic of sentence construction is completely alien and therefore very difficult to understand. That's why they have so much problem learning foreign languages, other than Korean whose structure is essentially identical to that of Japanese.
On the other hand, Portuguese, being Indo-European just like English, uses a much more Indo-European sentence structure, so for a Portuguese speaker, picking up English is much easier.
To put it shortly, a Japanese needs years of lessons and training to even understand basic English, while a Portuguese can pick up basic English on his own fairly quickly in comparison. So assuming that just because other speakers of Indo-European languages, or even Uralic languages such as Finnish or Hungarian, or even Semitic languages such as Arabic or Hebrew, can peak up English, so can the Japanese, is absurd.
And yes, even Semitic languages have a much more similar sentence structure to Indo-European languages than Japanese, and I'd put that down to the fact the Semitic peoples have historically lived close to Indo-European peoples so I guess there was some convergence.

Edit: And we Europeans are also much more multi-cultural. We have no problems adapting and learning another language to speak to new people, etc. The Japanese on the other hand are much more closed and single-cultural and a lot of them have this attitude that if you want to speak to them, you have to do it in their language. So this is another reason why they won't adapt as easily as Europeans or Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse
What I'd rather do is create one subforum with a thread for each language.
What do you guys think?
I agree with that idea.
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Last edited by Battler; 2016-07-17 at 06:46.
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  #10  
Old 2016-07-17, 14:03
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@Battles, I am not saying it is easy to learn the language. Everyone has it's own limitations and some languages are indeed easier to pick up depending on it's origin.
What I was saying is if they do want, they will be able to, depending on the difficulty. We can see the same happening the other way around, with a lot of people learn Japanese. Of course it's difficult but that doesn't mean they can't.

I struggled a lot on my early days in this forum. I was never a language guy at school and I start them very late on my youth. Even cancelled English classes at school.
For all posts, read or write, I had to use a dictionary for almost every single word. I didn't had any help and made a lot of mistakes of course, but the will to communicate with this community was bigger than my limitations.
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  #11  
Old 2016-07-17, 15:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xesf
We can see the same happening the other way around, with a lot of people learn Japanese. Of course it's difficult but that doesn't mean they can't.
Yes, but they all usually take years, sometimes even a decade or more, before they're able to converse in Japanese. I've been learning it for more than 10 years and am still far from speaking it well. In comparison, it took me about two years to speak Spanish well. And if it's this hard for me to learn Japanese, and I'm a guy otherwise talented in learning languages, how hard must it be for a non-talented person? And how hard ust it be for a non-talented Japanese person to learn English? A lot probably.
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  #12  
Old 2016-07-18, 14:06
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#Done
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  #13  
Old 2016-07-18, 15:03
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Bad idea. There would't be MBN if it was one of those forums with different language sections. It would just be another generic forum with no soul.

My native language is Hebrew which is absolutely NOT close to English, and thanks to the MBN, along with video games and TV, I now think and dream in English.

Like it or not (personally, I like it), English is the international language and it's the language you should use to speak with people on the internet. Using any other language needlessly divides communities and hinders globalization.

Last edited by ChaosFish; 2016-07-18 at 15:15.
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  #14  
Old 2016-07-18, 18:18
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Quote:
Bad idea. There would't be MBN if it was one of those forums with different language sections. It would just be another generic forum with no soul.
How exactly? The Ring Forum had a Japanese-language section and it always had more soul than the MBN.

Quote:
My native language is Hebrew which is absolutely NOT close to English, and thanks to the MBN, along with video games and TV, I now think and dream in English.
Hebrew is closer to English than Japanese is. It has a concept of grammatical number, it inflects verbs by person, and it's written in some sort of alphabet. Japanese lacks the concept of grammatical number, verbs are never inflected by person, and it's written with two syllabaries and an ideographic script.
Plus, you probably learned enough English at school so that you arrived here knowing basic English in the first place. English teaching in Japan is much less cared about so often you have people reaching adulthood without even being able to put together a sentence in basic English.

Quote:
Like it or not (personally, I like it), English is the international language and it's the language you should use to speak with people on the internet. Using any other language needlessly divides communities and hinders globalization.
Well, that's your opinion, and I respect it. But you respect other opinions too, please.
Also, if Adeline Software themselves had zero problems allowing their game to be localized to Japanese and even handing out the LBA 1 source code to allow said localicaztion, who are we to not give the Japanese at least one thread where they can speak their own language.
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  #15  
Old 2016-07-18, 23:31
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I respect your opinion. I just leave the "IMHO" as implied.

I get what you're saying.
And still, IMHO, it would be sad - no - *I* would be sad to see an MBN that is divided by languages where only certain people can read a certain language and thus groups remain separate. For me the MBN has always been the symbol of globalization. Thanks to it I got to know people from all over the world and absorb other cultures. I would probably be a different person without it.

I want to maybe actually get to know these Japanese LBA fans, ya know? Even if people don't know English, it's good to have an incentive. When not knowing something actually gets in your way, it's much easier to put an effort and learn.

You're a real prodigy where it comes to languages Battler, and you'll probably be the only one who will actually be able to read all threads.
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  #16  
Old 2016-07-20, 01:09
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- ChaosFish: I see your points but you fail to understand that it takes a Japanese years to learn enough English to at least get the gist of what's being said on this forum. So the the choice is really between attracting them before they know English and accomodating them while they don't, to give them an incentive, or not accomodating them and instead only attract those of them who already know English, which you can probably count on your fingers.
At least now that we have an International section and a thread where you can speak Japanese (though I'm still waiting for the Administrators to fix some a render fail), Japanese LBA fans who don't speak English, if they want to learn English, at least have a place now where they can have people help them with that. It should certainly make them feel more warm and welcome.
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Old 2018-06-15, 00:48
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What would be the point? Assuming there are japanese lba fans out there, if they know enough english to communicate with us they don't need a japanese section, and if they don't, then they're only going to communicate with each other which is already the case anyway.
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Old 2018-06-15, 01:02
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Frankly, there's no need for conjecture, there is a japanese thread in the international sub-forum, and it is empty
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