[2.21] is working on a new LBA

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Styx

Sorry for double post but am i the only one confused here? And I've played the games, imagine someone new to the franchise:

Wait 'till Twinsen's Little Big Adventure 1 Remastered, Twinsen's Little Big Adventure 2 Remastered, Twinsen's Little Big Adventure 1 Reboot and
Twinsen's Little Big Adventure 2 Reboot hit the shelves.

Oh boy.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Bot13

I feel like I've been patient and have given them the benefit of the doubt enough at this point. I also tried to be open minded as much as possible. But at this point I just have to say it.

- I dislike the new naming a lot, and it feels unnecessary
- I dislike their PR in the sense that they don't REALLY seem to take along feedback. Also I noticed some streams done in French, and I feel that in order to reach their goal of reintroducing LBA to a current, wider market, they should stick to English.
- Their 'unlock all items' mode felt gimmicky and produced some progression issues for me.
- I dislike the art style for the remakes as shown in the screenshots/mockups. The visual priority is all over the place, Twinsen doesn't read well and is just not visually pleasing, the characters are missing shading/depth. I wonder why they wouldn't just go for a nice HD remaster, instead of these remakes. Having decided to go for a full UE5 remake instead, I wonder why they would stick to isometric. Just so many questions.
- I dislike their hiring process, yes I can admit it didn't feel great being ignored when sending in my portfolio, for a position I think I was objectively very suited for. I don't mind being rejected, especially if I would know their reasons. But I disliked the total radio silence. I do think I dodged a bullet, though. They already lost their lead producer months after hiring him, it's indicative that either they don't think their hires through carefully enough, or there is something to dislike at 2.21.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

[Quetch]

Originally Posted by CiB

The remaster pics confuse me a bit. I don't mind how the scenery looks- trees, buildings, signs etc. But all the characters are looking pretty rough.

I feel like they're trying to ape cartoons and make the characters look a bit 2d in a 3d world. For me (and other ancients maybe?) part of what defined LBA's look was how 3D it looked at a time where that was very unusual. Everything (especially in LBA1 with it's always fixed camera angles) just looks really solid, like it has a presence and mass. But these remaster pics don't have that solidity. That's probably a crap explanation of how I feel about these remaster pictures (and I believe they're not actual screenshots) that makes no sense to anyone else. Maybe the final product will look much better when we see video rather than just stills of what they might aim for.

This right here nails it. That image they shared looks not ok at all. I mean, the environment looks LBA1-ish, with some things like the trees almost 1:1 with the original, then you have a bit of modern stuff added here and there, kinda like oil painting vibes on the house, but then Twinsen... he just looks like a mangled piece of paper thrown in the recycle bin, my eyes were trying to distinguish just what was going on there. It's not just some "cool cel-shading" (which btw is more suited for a 2008-vibe, definitely not taking advantage of UE5 in 2023), it's like 3 different artists worked on that image while being completely separated from each other with no feedback being given whatsoever. It's just all over the place, really looks like a random selection of 3 very distinct visual styles. I really don't want LBA to turn more 2D-ish than it was, not even by recreating that isometric perspective. I mean... the best thing about it was the whole open-world 3D aspect of it.

[Bot13]

Originally Posted by bloodhound

Sticking with isometric is a lot less work, because (I guess) they just need to take the backgrounds, increase the size, selectively apply a painting filter, and brush up the results. Whereas I think the 3D remodelling of just Twinsen's house interior by smoke_th took 24 hours.

How do you know their lead producer left? Was that the guy who did most of the explanations when they did their impromptu showcase for LBA's birthday?

They plan on remaking everything in UE5, which is a 3D engine. I expect that means they'll remake everything in 3D in any case. It's also possible they'll go for some kind of faked actual isometric implementation in UE5, but if they do that, where's the benefit over just upscaling/improving the sprites? By the way, redesigning all those (multidirectional) sprites is going to be a ton of work. That's why I would have seen more merit in some kind of (AI assisted?) upscaling only, no engine swap.

And the producer was a Dutch guy that's in my game dev network, I just know he left. It's on his LinkedIn as well, etc.

[Bot13]

I just want to reiterate, in case it's not clear to anyone. The images are so-called 'overpaints'. They just had an artist Photoshop on top of LBA1 screenshots. That's why certain parts are identical to LBA1 and some parts look different. 2.21 did a poor job of communicating this, which is causing confusion left and right, and I've called out Ben Limare on this on Facebook because the I'm done with 2.21's unclear and incomplete communication at this point.

[danielsan]

I think the people from the 2.21 studio are a bit clueless what to do with the franchise. These screenshots look more like a remake then a remaster. Personaly the graphics style is ok for the enviroment but not for the characters because it differs a lot from the original style of the games. The idea of making this is good because the gameplay, graphics & sound could definetly have a upgrade after 30 years but keep it closer to the original style. If they do it well and it sells good i rather have them focusing on making the LBA 3 game. Still don't get it why they would do a reboot seems like the story is fine i wouldnt change it.

[elmuerte]

The style in the screenshots is absolutely not consistent. If you'd told me this is concept art, then ok. But if this is what those re-somethings are actually going to look like, then

[bloodhound]

Originally Posted by Bot13

They plan on remaking everything in UE5, which is a 3D engine. I expect that means they'll remake everything in 3D in any case.

Ah, I mixed up UE5 and Unity there. Hmm, yeah that doesn't make any sense. As they wrote that it's a "passion project", I guess it was just Paulo doing the screenshot overpainting on one evening and then Ben said "Go for it. Let's use that as positive news while we communicate that we have to delay the reboot release."

Originally Posted by Bot13

That's why I would have seen more merit in some kind of (AI assisted?) upscaling only, no engine swap.

Maybe in the long run swapping the engine is still worth is, as with modern engines they can easily have non-programmers tweak parameters. I can't imagine working with the old files (even translated to C) being fun and productive, and from what I see their changes to the old engine caused lots of bugs, which is kind of unavoidable.

Do you also work in game development now? Or develop games in your free time?

[Quetch]

Hmm.. not really sure it's just a paint-over... I can see some pretty accurate dynamic lighting and shadows being cast (maybe maps or Lumen?)... I think we're seeing a draft from UE to be honest...

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by bloodhound

Whereas I think the 3D remodelling of just Twinsen's house interior by smoke_th took 24 hours.

That's... actually quite short... How many scenes are there in one game ? If you have a team of 10 guys, you're done with 500 houses in two months...

[rob_c]

Originally Posted by Bot13

I just want to reiterate, in case it's not clear to anyone. The images are so-called 'overpaints'. They just had an artist Photoshop on top of LBA1 screenshots. That's why certain parts are identical to LBA1 and some parts look different.

This is true. I noticed it yesterday too. I thought everyone had noticed it.


In this picture you can see it even better, e.g. the barrels or baskets in the corner are from the game.

[Quetch]

Where did u get that picture from? the more I look at them, the more I'm tempted to say it's some AI brush reconstruction, look at some of the barrels, as well as the gas canisters... they're chopped at the bottom and have some strange corners, kinda like the artefacts you get with tools such as Dall-E.

[rob_c]

All artworks are on Steam. Here are all the photos
LBA1:

[rob_c]

Lba2:

[Polaris]

If they are really trying to pass of concept art / internal pieces as game screenshots, it's a tad concerning...

[SpaceGuitarist]

Funny they'd go to the lenghts of redoing the TWO original games TWICE... o.O
... but giving us one single new game like LBA 3 is "far fetched and unrealistic". Lol!

Also, they seem completely oblivious to the fans feedback and magicball. What fans want? LBA 3!! What 2.21 promises to give us? 4 games consisting of 2 remakes and 2 reboots. :s

By the way, if they are re-interpreting all the graphics and assets from scratch as shown in the screens above, it is NOT a remaster of the original graphics, but a REMAKE!

Funny how people who are supposedly in the gaming industry confuse these terms. Also don't they realise how confusing and messy the nomenclature of all these games are going to be.

I loved Paulo's work and his style, but the management seems confuse and lost as hell in what they want and are not making good use of this talent they've hired.

[CUvox]

I feel recreated LBA looks like Another World - Heart of the Alien, in regard to its artistic style.

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Funny they'd go to the lenghts of redoing the TWO original games TWICE... o.O
... but giving us one single new game like LBA 3 is "far fetched and unrealistic". Lol!

Also, they seem completely oblivious to the fans feedback and magicball. What fans want? LBA 3!! What 2.21 promises to give us? 4 games consisting of 2 remakes and 2 reboots. :s

By the way, if they are re-interpreting all the graphics and assets from scratch as shown in the screens above, it is NOT a remaster of the original graphics, but a REMAKE!

Funny how people who are supposedly in the gaming industry confuse these terms. Also don't they realise how confusing and messy the nomenclature of all these games are going to be.

I loved Paulo's work and his style, but the management seems confuse and lost as hell in what they want and are not making good use of this talent they've hired.

I'm right with you, here.


Coupled with Bot's personal anecdotes, I'm downright skeptical any of this will pan out the way we'd like.


I'm now wondering if the delay isn't a farce entirely, and they haven't been able to get any bites from a publisher whatsoever. Instead, the project will shift to these "remakes." They shot for the moon, and ended up...not even leaving the ground? Forget the stars.


As Polly said, if concept art is being passed off as in-game footage, there are bigger issues in play here.


You want to see proper art style in a modern isometric game? Look at Death's Door:




Compare that to this:





It's not even a fair comparison. Sure, one is in Unity and the other in UE, but Death's Door looks cohesive and this LBA re-remake looks like dogshit.


To bring it full circle, SGK mentioned they aren't really listening to the fans. Maybe not the MBN, but I've been perusing their Discord channel and people are jizzing on each other over how excited they are to play these re-remakes, defending any criticism of the fact that this will take time and resources away from the reboot, and seem to be happy with these screenshots. So maybe that's their gauge?


Don't know, but all I can say is I'm happy to have played the originals because none of this looks any good...

[Reek]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Funny how people who are supposedly in the gaming industry confuse these terms. Also don't they realise how confusing and messy the nomenclature of all these games are going to be.

this nails it imo. very concerning when the people working on the game don't seem to know the difference between a remake and a remaster?


they'll give us 2 remakes and 2 reboots but not lba3. i can't keep up anymore, i don't understand any of this

[CUvox]

Originally Posted by Reek

they'll give us 2 remakes and 2 reboots but not lba3.

LBA remakes + reboots VS AnotherWorld.

[Reek]

My questions:


- If you have time to work on a "remaster", why not use that to make the best possible prototype you can make?


- Why not show us the prototype, and instead show us some photoshop mockups of a remaster nobody asked for?


- How do you expect your project to succeed without dedicating all of your efforts and resources to make an impressive demonstration that'll generate hype and interest?


- Why are they re-releasing the originals, remastering the originals, and effectively doing everything except MAKING A NEW FUCKING GAME


- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M) This is what the team working on no man's sky decided to show people, it's how they got 8 million views and got picked up by a publisher. Why isn't studio 2.21 working on something like this?

[Medur]

I'll be honest here:

The decision to rename the series to TLBA was incredibly dumb.
The decision to reboot the series was disappointing.
The decision to remake the games (despite a reboot having been previously announced) and release those screenshots was both dumb and disappointing.

At this point, I completely lost hope for 2.21. I have zero expectations for their work - I am pretty sure nothing will come out of this, but if it does I expect it to be terrible.

Note this has nothing to do with the artists or programmers working on the games. To me those issues look like top-down issues, i.e. bad management and direction. Whoever is running the show strikes me as an idiot. And if that person is reading this post right now, sorry, but that's what it looks like. You are free to prove me wrong.

[CUvox]

I always wanted new LBA exactly like previous LBAs, not crossover with AnotherWorld, duh!

[Reek]

Imagine being new to the franchise and trying to make heads or tails of this...

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Funny they'd go to the lenghts of redoing the TWO original games TWICE... o.O
... but giving us one single new game like LBA 3 is "far fetched and unrealistic". Lol!

Also, they seem completely oblivious to the fans feedback and magicball. What fans want? LBA 3!! What 2.21 promises to give us? 4 games consisting of 2 remakes and 2 reboots. :s

By the way, if they are re-interpreting all the graphics and assets from scratch as shown in the screens above, it is NOT a remaster of the original graphics, but a REMAKE!

Funny how people who are supposedly in the gaming industry confuse these terms. Also don't they realise how confusing and messy the nomenclature of all these games are going to be.

I loved Paulo's work and his style, but the management seems confuse and lost as hell in what they want and are not making good use of this talent they've hired.

I must say, I agree with you on this.
Like others have said, their Discord is chock-full of positive reactions every time a member of 2.21 sneezes. I'm afraid we, the dissatisfied MBN boomers are the exception x(

Death's Door looks gorgeous, I must play that sooner or later.