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  #26  
Old 2015-02-20, 01:08
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Battler Battler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
PayPal is a bad payment system,
That was said by Darkflame, not me. I even expressed my negative perception of his opinion. All I added was that PayPal has a problem in that it's American and that EU should make their own like Russia has, never that PayPal per se is a bad payment system. Please attack what I actually said instead of constructing straw men.

Quote:
how iTunes is evil,
No, other than calling Apple in general evil, I said iTunes per see is a man in the middle between me and the artists I want to pay, and I want to pay artists directly and I want all my money going to them.

Quote:
how anyone involved with iTunes is an Apple fan,
Another straw man as I never said that. I said that anyone doing business with iTunes, though a better choice of words would have been that is supportive of Apple, because someone not supportive of Apple wouldn't do business with a product of theirs.

Quote:
how Apple is a horrendously evil company,
How did they not screw up Apple Records as well as that Brazilian company which produced the original IPhone?

Quote:
how farmers who agree to Monsanto can be compared equal to musicians who put their music to be sold on iTunes,
No, I compared farmers selling themselves to Monsanto to musicians giving rights to their music to Apple, therefore making Apple the sole or majority rightsholder of their work. Therefore, yours is another straw man.

Quote:
how Europe is into an economic crisis,
Is that false?

Quote:
how you are unable to get a job,
Again, is that false?

Quote:
how because of that you have negative view of the world,
And once again, is that false?

Quote:
how I can't consider Vachey's music to be better than Chopin and other classical music,
I said that in my opinion, yours is ridiculous. Please stop being upset because I attacked your opinion. Nowhere did I attack *YOU*, I attacked *YOUR OPINION*, which I have every right to just like you have every right to attack mine.
However nowhere did I say you are not allowed to have an opinion I find ridiculous.
"I think your opinion is ridiculous" != "You may not disagree with me". Get that into your head.
FYI, I think that thinking the Earth was created by God 6000 years ago is ridiculous, but that doesn't mean I automatically think anyone who has that opinion is a bad person. It might just be someone who doesn't know better, or someone who is simply more comfortable with that than with a 4.5 billion years old Earth created by the Big Bang.
Same here, while I find your opinion about music ridiculous, I still think you're nice guy. Fuck, I think some of the music tastes my mother has are ridiculous, that doesn't mean I love or respect her less.

So yeah, I've indeed been a dick throughout this thread, but you've at the same time constructed straw men otu of my claims and attacked said straw men instead of attacking my claims as they actually were.
And the fact you don't even recognize that your interpretations of my claims might be, you know, wrong, makes you just as stubborn as I am. In fact, more so, as I made plenty of concessions to you already, while you've made exactly zero to me.
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  #27  
Old 2015-02-20, 01:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
- Darkflame: You don't get it, do you? We're in the world's worst economic crisis since 1929, which means an increasing number of people have no jobs and no choice but to live with their parents which means no ISP account of their own.
People living of their parents ISP arnt likely to pay for internet content in ANY way are they Not seeing how that's a criticism of a proposed low-overhead system for paying websites.

That said, their parents could always allow them internet "pocket money" or such if they wished. Upto them.

Quote:
Your system would do nothing but allow websites those with money prefer get more funds than the rest. That would hamper progress. Same for the music and movies.
Patron? Kickstarter? Indiegogogogogo...

Pretty much all my favourite independent online shows are looking into ways to support themselves outside of pure advertising. This doesn't take anything away from them, it just adds another option.

Your argument is really weird its like saying "kickstarter is bad because only things people want to pay for gets funded!"

The only alternative I see is to have a socialist system to pay for all arts/entertainment. But that seems horrible. While my politics do lie towards "every life essential should be given to everyone" style socialism, to extend that to having arts/entertainment government paid seems to far. Youd be left with a centralised authority picking the media. At best that will be biased towards a tiny tiny fraction of the population, at worst its dangerous due to potential for manipulation.

People choosing to spend their money on something should be rewarded by more stuff like as far as I see. As someone that sponsors shows I like I expect them to servive better, produce more stuff, get better cameras etc.
I have chucked money at loadingreadyrun.com (a sketch comedy group I love) and The Projectionist Project (whos just a reviewer/short film maker I like. Also made the webseries Monsters Anonymous)
I dont remotely see whats wrong with this. I like their stuff. They get a bit of my money. They do better then stuff I don't like.

If I deserve the money I have is a bigger social issue. Clearly not everyone who has money does.
But for people that do work harder being rewarded by being able to support more entertainment they like - and thus get more of it - seems a pretty darn fine reward for working harder. Certainly fairer and more useful then "better survival chances" or "a big pointless house" or "just hoarding the money as a life high score" which covers a lot of rich people.

Besides, pretty sure "the real rich" arnt going to be doing internet microtransaction anyway. They will just donate a big lump sum. "Patron of the Arts" the old fashioned way.

Quote:
Oh, and what would guarantee us with your system that we would be allowed to tip any artist, etc. from any where in the world? What would guarantee us I would be able to tip, say, Morning Musume, without their tipping account demanding me to have a Mobile Mail address (that only exists in Japan) or simply blocking it with "this artist is not available in your country"?
I don't know, what "guarantee" with the current system they can?
I don't understand how your holding my system to a higher standard then whats there already

If their funds use ANY type of international transfer of money, your subject to the laws of the country for that bank. If its via EU your subject to EU laws. If it cross's a border it can be blocked at the receiving end too.
Theres lots of ways money can be blocked.

As I linked too earlier, PayPal has withhold loads of payments for random reasons. Like stopping people donating to Wikileaks, for example.

This would be operating like a bank - or at the very least a debit card company - and would be subject to the same laws and regulation.

Quote:
This is another reason why I support piracy - it gives me the ability to choose from among the entire spectrum of worldwide music, movies, TV shows, etc., whereas if I had to rely on getting everything legally, I would have to import whatever is now available directly in my country.
Nothing I said was against piracy, I am just asking....again, how do artists get paid?

What are you proposing that lets artists GET MONEY - without being subject to anyone's banking laws.

Because I am really confused.
--
My system was not a solution to all the worlds money problems, it was just a way to have a low-overhead microtransaction system online. Currently if you want to pay someone, say, 10cents, it will cost 50 cents or so.
Low donations are very hard to do because the way credit/debit/paypal all works.
Thinking about it, given that you can only donate bigger sums of money at the moment...doesn't that make the current systems more bias toward richer internet users?
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2015-02-20 at 03:06.
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  #28  
Old 2015-02-20, 01:26
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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
I made plenty of concessions to you already, while you've made exactly zero to me.
Because this is pathethic. You don't even get what I am saying. I posted all your offtopic topics as examples of "things you should leave out of a thread about LBA3", and what you do? ask me if they were "false or not". That's irrelevant.

Go take a long vacation, seriously.
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  #29  
Old 2015-02-20, 02:20
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Where did my "I'm sorry SGK that I went offtopic" post go ? Don't be angry at me SGK please
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  #30  
Old 2015-02-20, 02:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Where did my "I'm sorry SGK that I went offtopic" post go ? Don't be angry at me SGK please
It's ok. But I did feel like this throughout this thread:
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #31  
Old 2015-02-20, 03:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitar
Because this is pathethic. You don't even get what I am saying. I posted all your offtopic topics as examples of "things you should leave out of a thread about LBA3", and what you do? ask me if they were "false or not". That's irrelevant.
I don't even get what you're saying? Holy Batman, I didn't know you could read minds.
I get that you meant don't derail threads, but my point was, I initially merely replied with something on-topic to the thread, it was the entire collective of me, you, Polaris, Darkflame, etc. that made it derail to PayPal, and whatever.
Though, I thank Darkflame for sorting it out.

And I took a long vacation, dude. I haven't posted here in ages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
As I linked too earlier, PayPal has withhold loads of payments for random reasons. Like stopping people donating to Wikileaks, for example.

This would be operating like a bank - or at the very least a debit card company - and would be subject to the same laws and regulation.
Again, PayPal operates like it does because it's American. Heck, Visa, MasterCard, etc., all American companies, all also blocked payments to WikiLeaks.
This is why we need something truly international, that would be subject to international regulations rather than a private entity in any single country.
And as regards the fees, well, any popular payment system is going to charge fees, simply because hosting costs and when you're hosting something that popular, it costs a lot.

Now, as regards your other points - well, I simply want a system which allows me to directly support any artist, etc. I wish, regardless of what country they are from and what country I am from, and support them directly instead of through men in the middle. Oh and a system that guarantees them anyone can support them for a cost weighed according to the average income in the country of the payer rather than in the country of the artist, hence not requiring me to pay Japanese prices (or even more) to support a Japanese artist just because a Japanese company thinks the whole world has Japanese wages even when it's not the case.
Hence why the system should be international, and regulated for the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Patron? Kickstarter? Indiegogogogogo...

Pretty much all my favourite independent online shows are looking into ways to support themselves outside of pure advertising. This doesn't take anything away from them, it just adds another option.
But your independent shows are pretty much all British or American. I see them actively seeking support from foreigners. However, I can't see the same from the Japanese unless there's an actual law that demands them to treat all their potential supporters equally, regardless of where in the world there are.

Oh, and another reason why I support piracy, specifically regarding Morning Musume, is some of their (former?) members' attitudes to their foreign fans. Once they interviewed foreign fans, misleading said fans to think they were genuinely interested in the opinions, then they played said interviews on Japanese TV, and has Morning Musume members comment them, and one of them said how all foreign fans are "weird", etc.
And there was at least one other occasion of them insulting their foreign fans.
Granted, some of them, such as Sayumi Michishige, actually have a better attitude. Sayumi for once was incredibly happy of the reception of the fans in Paris, and of the fact they sang Happy Birthday to her, and she directly talked to a few of the most lucky there.
But that doesn't change the fact two of their other members have at various points in the past years displayed outright xenophobia.

Then there's also the fact that several of them have their blogs on Gree.jp which makes it impossible for foreigners to comment, because first for years they only allowed registrations from Japanese cell-phones by requiring a Mobile Mail address which is something that isn't used outside Japan, then they allowed registration with a smartphone, but deliberately made it so non-Japanese registrant lose access to the Japanese parts of Greece immediately upon registering.
Now, already Morning Musume members themselves are influential enough to push their employers to push Gree, and their employers, Hello!Project/Up-Front Agency, one of the biggest idol companies in Japan, are surely influential enough to push Gree to allow foreigners to comment on their blogs. Yet, they don't. Why? Because they don't care.
They try to "expand to our markets" (LOL, going to the rare occasions where they get invited is not a good way - start marketing your stuff to all Europe, and do a pan-European tour and you'll see your sales here rise massively) yet at the same time behave like we, their foreign fans, are second-rate cattle to them.
And this is exactly because there is no international organization controlling all this.

Now, I am all for allowing each country to develop on their own since I'm sick to the back teeth of the US dictating to everyone what their laws and policies must be, but honestly, there's a different between independent development and isolationism bordering on xenophobia.
But then again, I think the US might have to do with this too. After all, the US Big Media Industry is one of the biggest pillars of the US economy, and if any other country started rivaling them in the long term in popular culture, the US dominance on popular culture could come to an end. Which would be a large blow to the US economy.
I mean, sure we have individual breakthroughs such as Psy's Gangnam Style (granted, that was South Kor, not Japanese) getting enormous international popularity, but that was one in a sea of many (and even that was because unlike Japan, South Korea is much more independent-minded and actually created a ministry to promote their own music) but nothing more than that. Certainly nothing in the long term.
The mere fact that when Morning Musume, Japan's biggest, and most famous idol group, performed at the Anime Expo in Paris in July 2010, 99% of TV and radio stations around Europe kept silent about it. Well, of course, media in France talked about it, but media outside France kept might silent, even though it was the first and possibly the only time in any place in Europe that it happened.
On the other hand, when Justin Bieber appeared out of nowhere, all EU media were immediately forcing him down our throats. How come? He was just as unknown in Europe as Morning Musume were (and still are), but just because he's from an Anglophone country (Canada in this case), he got immediate attention from everyone.
Heck... our media are silent even about European music. Even after the Eurovision Song Contest every year, the winning song gets tons of airplay, but every other song apart from whatever happens to be the specific country's song, gets 0. For some reason, the media seem to only play the biggest hits, as if someone is paying them to do that.
And as far as movies and TV shows are concerned, it's no better. The few non-Anglopshere ones that do get shown, get never shown in theaters and get relegated to lesser channels on TV. For example, here in Slovenia, The Ring (2002) (the US remake) was shown in theaters and on POP-TV which most people watch. Ring (1998) (the Japanese original) was never shown in theatres and on TV it was only shown on state TV which almost noone watched. And while the former got a DVD relase in high quality, the latter got a poor quality release which wasn't even anamorphic widescreen but low-resolution widescreen letterboxed to 4:3, at a low bitrate too... how the heck is that fair and equal, when the US remake got treated better just because it's American?
And mind you, this wasn't the case in eg. France or Germany (and maybe the UK too), where the Japanese original had the same exposure as the US version (was shown in theaters too), and also got high quality DVD releases. Yet, it was the case for most of the EU.

I'm going to continue this later because it's too late now (2:22) and I need to got o sleep.
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  #32  
Old 2015-02-20, 04:07
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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
I don't even get what you're saying? Holy Batman, I didn't know you could read minds.
I get that you meant don't derail threads, but my point was, I initially merely replied with something on-topic to the thread, it was the entire collective of me, you, Polaris, Darkflame, etc. that made it derail to PayPal, and whatever.
Though, I thank Darkflame for sorting it out.

And I took a long vacation, dude. I haven't posted here in ages.
Good.
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sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #33  
Old 2015-02-20, 09:30
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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
How come? He was just as unknown in Europe as Morning Musume were (and still are), but just because he's from an Anglophone country (Canada in this case), he got immediate attention from everyone.
Haven't you considered a possibility that it's all caused by the specificity of european audience? Sure, there are people like you who are interested in remote eastern cultures, but you're still in minority. A lot of people simply prefer things that they can easily relate to, and with English being the most popular (foreign) language, it's obvious that the art (literature, music, whatever) performed/created in English is preferred.
Sure, if the non-English artworks were promoted more, they'd probably get more attention from the public. But culture is a market too. Nobody's going to risk their money just for the sake of cultural "equal rights" (unless they belong to some cultural foundation / association, of course).
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  #34  
Old 2015-02-20, 11:24
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- Kasia: How are people going to be interested if they don't know of the existence of the Japanese artists? Now, if the Japanese artists got the same level of advertisement here as say, American ones, and demand was still low, I could get it. But until then, it's just an excuse based on no evidence.

"Nobody's going to risk their money just for the sake of cultural "equal rights" (unless they belong to some cultural foundation / association, of course)."
Interesting, but in my country, they had no problems risking their money 20 years ago when they broadcast Latin American soap operas for the first time. They had no idea how people in this country would take them, but they still went ahead and did it. And it was a success. Even though it's non-English (it's in Spanish or Portuguese, depending on the country of origin).
Also, you really think America's global hegemony (it's come to the point of Obama admitting that "America has to bend some countries' arms to get them to do what the US needs them to do") has nothing to do with why the US popular culture is the most popular worldwide? The rest of the Anglosphere is on the second place, and IMHO, largely because it shares the (English) language with the American culture. But the primary is by far American.

And as for the specificity of European audience, let me ask you this. You know that there's a huge following of Japanese popular culture in France and Germany, partly also in Italy and UK... well in Northern and Western Europe in General. Don't you think the lack of following in Central and Eastern Europe has to do with the fact we were under socialism for decades and therefore when they got their exposure to anime, etc., we did not, and after socialism collapsed, our countries got subject to an extreme dose of US influence? And if not, what makes us so different from those in Northern and Western Europe?
Because I do find that Anglo-American popular culture has a much higher share of the total popular culture in our countries than in Northern and Western Europe.
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  #35  
Old 2015-02-20, 12:36
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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Interesting, but in my country, they had no problems risking their money 20 years ago when they broadcast Latin American soap operas for the first time.
Here the Latin American soap operas were very popular too, but obviously not among everyone. There was a niche of frequent watchers, mainly bored housewives.
BUT wasn't it just the same with, let's say, Pokemon or Sailor Moon? Kids loved these.

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Also, you really think America's global hegemony (...) has nothing to do with why the US popular culture is the most popular worldwide?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
You know that there's a huge following of Japanese popular culture in France and Germany, partly also in Italy and UK... Don't you think the lack of following in Central and Eastern Europe has to do with the fact we were under socialism for decades and therefore when they got their exposure to anime, etc., we did not, and after socialism collapsed, our countries got subject to an extreme dose of US influence?
Yes, partially at least.
I think that the ethnic homogeneity of our countries is a reason too. We didn't have any overseas colonies, we don't have a big immigration of people who belong to other races. That makes us less open for "exotic" cultures.
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  #36  
Old 2015-02-20, 13:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia
BUT wasn't it just the same with, let's say, Pokemon or Sailor Moon? Kids loved these.
Not in my country. In my country, the few anime that do come are generally US dubs on cable channels. And certainly not Sailor Moon, to which only here in the Literal we had exposure because we're close to Italy (border is only 10 km from me!) so we always received Italian TV on terrestrial and watched Sailor Moon and lots of other anime there. The fact our area is bilingual with Italian language co-official because of the Italian minority here and hence us having had mandatory lessons of Italian since earliest school, helped too. But, say, in central Slovenia, their exposure has been much smaller.

Quote:
Yes.
So to you, it's only a coincidence that it's the hegemon's language that is the most popular and that it's the hegemon's popular culture that is the most popular.

Quote:
I think that the ethnic homogeneity of our countries is a reason too. We didn't have any overseas colonies, we don't have a big immigration of people who belong to other races. That makes us less open for "exotic" cultures.
Ethnic homogeneity? Maybe in Poland. Here in Yugoslavia, we had 6 officially recognized ethnicities of our own (Slovenians, Croats, Serbs, Bosnians, Montenegrins, and Macedonians), plus minorities (Italian and Hungarian in Slovenia, Albanian and Romanian in Serbia, Greek in Macedonia). Czechoslovakia wasn't ethnically homogeneous either (they had Czechs, Slovaks, Moravians, and the Hungarian minority in southern Slovakia).
Heck, not even Poland itself is ethnically homogeneous - what about the Kashubians and Silesians, as well as the Lithuanian minority in the northeast?
And as far as being open for exotic cultures goes - that's interesting of you to say, considering we're currently subject to a wave of Chinese immigration (who do you think is opening all the Chinese restaurants?) and we have a lot of learners of Chinese and fans of Chinese restaurants, so people *are* open to exotic cultures.
Which IMHO proves, that the lack of East Asian popular culture in the media is solely due to:
1. US and their allies paying big money to our media etc. to give prominence to their popular culture;
2. Our media, theaters, etc. being greedy and refusing to deal with anything that isn't "the biggest hit ever".

Heck, for your information, our theaters didn't even show Queen's Hungarian Rhapsody which is a film of their 1986 Budapest Népstadion concert, despite there being popular demand. I can show you the thread on Kino Tuš's forums with several people asking why, and the administration only bothering with one reply citing "distributers are not offering it" as an excuse (come on, it's a concert, it doesn't need subitling, so why not buy it directly?).
Why is it that Justin Bieber's concert movie was shown in our theaters as soon as it was released while Queen's wasn't, despite there being more than enough popular demand to?
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  #37  
Old 2015-02-20, 13:57
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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Ethnic homogeneity? Maybe in Poland. Here in Yugoslavia, we had 6 officially recognized ethnicities of our own (Slovenians, Croats, Serbs, Bosnians, Montenegrins, and Macedonians), plus minorities (Italian and Hungarian in Slovenia, Albanian and Romanian in Serbia, Greek in Macedonia). Czechoslovakia wasn't ethnically homogeneous either (they had Czechs, Slovaks, Moravians, and the Hungarian minority in southern Slovakia).
Heck, not even Poland itself is ethnically homogeneous - what about the Kashubians and Silesians, as well as the Lithuanian minority in the northeast?
I used the word "RACE" on purpose.
+ EDIT: I'm a geographer, no need to tell me all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
And as far as being open for exotic cultures goes - that's interesting of you to say, considering we're currently subject to a wave of Chinese immigration (who do you think is opening all the Chinese restaurants?) and we have a lot of learners of Chinese and fans of Chinese restaurants, so people *are* open to exotic cultures.
Here we've got "a lot" of Vietnamese people (along with their restaurants). But they're popular not because Poles are interested in Asian food (not to mention that the food sold there doesn't have much to do with the REAL, traditional meals eaten in Asia), but because they're very cheap. I wouldn't compare eating sweet & sour chicken to exploring the exotic artworks.

Anyway, the mass culture is as it is and no authorities have any rational purpose in trying to change it. But culture is very susceptible to grassroots movements, so if you truly believe that there are some pieces of art which are underestimated around here, then go and preach them. It surely would be more effective that complaining about the western culture being too invasive.

Last edited by Kasia; 2015-02-20 at 16:06.
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  #38  
Old 2015-02-20, 15:08
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Battler Battler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia
Anyway, the mass culture is as it is and no authorities have any rational purpose in trying to change it. But culture is very susceptible to grassroots movements, so if you truly believe that there are some pieces of art which are underestimated around here, then go and preach them.
Problem is, preaching culture to people requires a venue that costs money. And how many people do you think would come, especially given all the other things going on?
I would have to organize an event on some day for which I'd be sure noone would have anything else to do, then maybe someone would bother coming.

Quote:
It surely would be more effective that complaining about the western culture being too invasive.
But it is! Look at how the big US corporations are trying to find scapegoats whenever their profits go down. Right now the scapegoat is piracy, but if piracy didn't exist, they would find other scapegoat. Probably they would start introducing harsher plagiarism laws that would allow them to sue any non-RIAA artist for plagiarism even if only two notes were the same.
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Old 2015-02-20, 16:20
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Problem is, preaching culture to people requires a venue that costs money. And how many people do you think would come, especially given all the other things going on?
I would have to organize an event on some day for which I'd be sure noone would have anything else to do, then maybe someone would bother coming.
Even if there was literally nothing else going on, people wouldn't come unless they were interested.
And there are many (costless) ways to make them become interested (find other people who share your views, set up an association / fanclub, organize culture-themed meetings, set up a blog / fanpage, perhaps present your ideas to some cultural institutions [cultural center? museum? gallery? embassy?] - they could help you with funding and organizing things).
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Old 2015-02-20, 18:20
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- Kasia: Let me do it point by point.
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find other people who share your views, set up an association / fanclub, organize culture-themed meetings,
Not easy when the people interested are few and all over the country.

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set up a blog / fanpage,
Ah yes, invest time and money into writing something that maybe 2 people will see, and if I want it advertise anywhere for exposure, I must pay even more, even if my site is non-profit.

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perhaps present your ideas to some cultural institutions [cultural center? museum? gallery? embassy?] - they could help you with funding and organizing things).
All are in Ljubljana, 100 km from me.

Sorry, but piracy is simply easier for me. Everything I want is already available from pirates and I can obtain it for free without having to waste time and money convincing other people to start sharing my tastes.
Hence, long live piracy!
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Old 2015-02-20, 19:57
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Sorry, but piracy is simply easier for me. Everything I want is already available from pirates and I can obtain it for free without having to waste time and money convincing other people to start sharing my tastes.
Hence, long live piracy!
Well then, I guess we're having two separate monologues, not a conversation. I haven't said a single word about piracy. I thought we were discussing the issue of mass culture's homogeneity and your desire of popularizing the exotic artworks that you admire.
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  #42  
Old 2015-02-20, 20:10
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- Kasia: My desire to promote the stuff I admire is in order to increase their availability and quality of availability in my country and across the EU. That way we would no longer have to violate the law to obtain what we love.
However, right now, it seems that the burned of attaining that goal sits on the shoulders of those of us who don't have money, while all the corporations that do want to keep sitting and doing nothing.
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  #43  
Old 2015-02-20, 21:11
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Oh and:

5. If we can help in any way for this man to make more amazing music to the world (not only for you - you and future generations), I don't care to pay 10 dollars more or whatnot.
This, pay the man for his Amazing music!
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  #44  
Old 2015-02-20, 21:11
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- Jesse: Sure, give me the money and I will. I am prepared to even earn said money by working for you.
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  #45  
Old 2015-02-20, 21:17
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Why is this topic suddenly about japanese artists?


Ps dj okawari is awesome
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  #46  
Old 2015-02-20, 21:43
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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Again, PayPal operates like it does because it's American. Heck, Visa, MasterCard, etc., all American companies, all also blocked payments to WikiLeaks.
This is why we need something truly international, that would be subject to international regulations rather than a private entity in any single country.
And as regards the fees, well, any popular payment system is going to charge fees, simply because hosting costs and when you're hosting something that popular, it costs a lot.
But I dont see why you are critising my preposal which was not remotely american - or any country- specific.
You seem to be picking on my concept as an excuse to complain about stuff that has nothing to do with it.

The point of my proposal was to get around the need to have a per transaction fee. Banks and credit cards charge a fee, they need to.
But by having a "buffer" fees only need to be charged going into the buffer and out of it. By tieing it to the ISP payments your paying anyway, it removes the need to pay overhead for one side of the payment. (if your already paying $10 a month for a connection paying $10.10 isnt going to cost any more. Paying just $0.10 to someone, however, would cost a lot more then $0.10)

Its all about lower overhead and making donations efficient enough to allow low numbers.

So, just like a mobile phone company might remember "you have X amount of credit" your ISP would do the same. "you have $10 to spend this month online".
Your then free to use that to support any website you like.

Yes, this would require potential money receivers to have an account.
But theres ZERO reason to expect this system to "only allow payments to US" or whatever. Just like PayPal can pay into an out of banks worldwide, this would too.

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Now, as regards your other points - well, I simply want a system which allows me to directly support any artist, etc. I wish, regardless of what country they are from and what country I am from, and support them directly instead of through men in the middle.
Impossible short of meeting them in person and giving them some gold
There will always be money handlers inbetween. The trick is to reduce it to a minimum.


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Oh and a system that guarantees them anyone can support them for a cost weighed according to the average income in the country of the payer rather than in the country of the artist, hence not requiring me to pay Japanese prices (or even more) to support a Japanese artist just because a Japanese company thinks the whole world has Japanese wages even when it's not the case.
My system was a tip system. You could pay what you want. That would, I assume, be somewhat related to your disposal income.


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But your independent shows are pretty much all British or American. I see them actively seeking support from foreigners. However, I can't see the same from the Japanese unless there's an actual law that demands them to treat all their potential supporters equally, regardless of where in the world there are.
The shows I support tend to have all their work up for free anyway. So its not like they give different products depending where you live.
I should try more diverse stuff though.

Its certainly true some company's in general charge unfair amounts depending on regions. But I find thats more for physical goods or the "big boys" selling stuff online. The little producers I dont see that. Normally they are happy with what they get from anyone that wants to give it.

For the record - I am all for equalising costs of things relative to average income. I dont think you can force a company to sale a product cheaper. But you could make it so their copyright/patents only applies in a country if they sale the product for roughly the same cost as elsewhere relative to income. That would encourage companies to try to get their goods affordable in that market, and if they cant everyone elses is free to try instead.


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Oh, and another reason why I support piracy, specifically regarding Morning Musume, is some of their (former?) members' attitudes to their foreign fans. Once they interviewed foreign fans, misleading said fans to think they were genuinely interested in the opinions, then they played said interviews on Japanese TV, and has Morning Musume members comment them, and one of them said how all foreign fans are "weird", etc.
And there was at least one other occasion of them insulting their foreign fans.
Oh, I am sure theres dozens of cases around the world. People can just be arses when they think a group is small or doesn't matter.

Piracy can certainly be a tool for good, allowing the spread of culture and providing people a means to try things they wouldnt have - in somecases because of idiotic companies and groups treating different countries like dirt.
I only think we should make it as easy as possible to support creators, as if you enjoy their work you do owe them.

Honestly, in a ideal world I think "the pirate bay" and such would have donate buttons next to every download. Allowing a really simple way to give money when you can.
I honestly think there would be enough people donating small amounts it would easily support a lot of even "big budget" things. The money earnt via advertising on tv and online is pathethic anyway - your talking just a few cents per person. So clearly big shows can be supported by lots of small amounts.


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Now, I am all for allowing each country to develop on their own since I'm sick to the back teeth of the US dictating to everyone what their laws and policies must be, but honestly, there's a different between independent development and isolationism bordering on xenophobia.
Unquestionably. We are all stronger when we mix idea and cultures.
Quote:
But then again, I think the US might have to do with this too. After all, the US Big Media Industry is one of the biggest pillars of the US economy, and if any other country started rivaling them in the long term in popular culture, the US dominance on popular culture could come to an end. Which would be a large blow to the US economy.
I think the US certainly could apply pressure to suppress other cultures media unfairly. The fact so much of the internet is routed via them is worrying.
I dont think they are doing that yet though.
Their dominance is mostly just investment and a early headstart, combined with (as you say) a general lack of mixing of other things.
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  #47  
Old 2015-02-20, 22:22
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- Darkflame: Then what about just including the fee into all ISP contracts worldwide. That way essentially the mere existence of the Internet gets to pay the entertainment industry. Just put up a worldwide regulatory body that would be directly democratically elected with a direct democratic ability to give the current body's members a motion of no confidence, receive payments from all worldwide ISP's, and have it open their offices everywhere and mandate that all employees of the entertainment industry register themselves with their local office so they can receive payment. Then let the people download whatever they want to their heart's content.
Granted, it would be pretty utopian but it would reduce overhead to a bare minimum and ensure the entire world's entertainment industry is paid for.
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  #48  
Old 2015-02-21, 00:41
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NO ! NO, NO, NO ! NOT A WIN AT ALL

I'm not saying that his music is bad or that it wouldn't deserve more praise just... I have very free opinions about music.
I believe there should be no author's right, only matters who plays. But I can understand people disagreeing.
Furthermore, there should be no copyright, once you played a song, it should be considered as a common propriety of every living thing. As such, you can download it, re-use it any way you see fit (musician can still live of in a world like that, by playing concerts, like they always did). But I can see why that would piss off people.

But pulling away something you already bought, and selling the tracks of the game for MORE than the game itself, from wich you can extract the SAME tracks... That is just too dishonest in my opinion.

And everytime this subject comes up, I don't understand why everyone seems to find this perfectly normal
What the? So I make a tune and suddenly it shouldnt be mine anymore?
Why? What is exactly wrong now?
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  #49  
Old 2015-02-21, 00:52
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I understand you Battler. You're thinking from your perspective, which is: i wanna play the game and not having to buy a pc i cannot afford to do it.

Most people look at things from their perspective. Freds perspective probably is: this is my baby and it deserves the best graphics/music/whatever. The second perspective would be business: they want something that sells too. And a shiny game might be easier to market. Also you dont want to show your game to kids and have em go like: why does it look shit? It needs to meet current standards at least a little. Unless ofcourse you present it as lofi game.

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First, I don't believe LBA 3 should be radically different from 1 and 2 just to cater to the masses. I'd like to see a LBA 3 that would keep the spirit of the original games.
There is also the fact that all the fancy ideas being floated around here would inevitably make the game require a high-end graphics card, etc. And everyone seems to be forgetting, we're in the middle of the world's worst economic crisis since that of 1929. You aren't expecting people who barely get by to update their hardware just to play a game, are you?
Now, you could make LBA 3 on an engine similar to that of, say, GTA: San Andreas, but with behaviors added and some stuff removed. That would be the best of both worlds - you update the game so it looks slightly more modern, while at the same time keep it playable for almost everyone.
I just don't get this Western tendency that the latest technology *MUST* be adopted just for the sake of adopting it, even if it brings no benefit, whatsoever, to the game. Why can the Japanese make excellent PC games that are playable on any OS and machine from 10 years ago to now, while here in the West, each new game alienates more and more players with the "omg upgrade your hardware NOW" attitude?
And if 2Dark adopt the same attitude, sorry, but I will have absolutely no problem sending monthly donations to some Russians to make a lower end remake of LBA 3. It's simple, if the authors of the original give me a message of "ha ha, who cares about you poor idiot, we only care about the rich who can afford getting a new high-end PC every year", ie. if they don't care about me and the millions like me on hardware which while reasonably modern, isn't exactly OMG the lastest, nor is it high end (it's entry-level really), why should I care about them?
I'd rather give my money, of which I already have a scarcity, to people who can demonstrate they care about me, than to people who care only about the rich.

Second, about the whole music thing.
First, people need to spare me this attitude of "not all musicians can perform live". Perform live means the ability to play an instrument and/or sing. A musician who can't do that, isn't a musician. I've frankly had enough of musically other abled drivel "musicians" such as Justin Bieber and One Direction who get fame just because they look cute and can move their rear ends well.
It's time to get back to real music, and I guess for that we need to bring the music industry back to when if you wanted to make your living from music, you had to have the ability to actually perform music.
Also, a musician who performs live *earns* their extra money, while someone who records an album then never moves a finger further but wants to profit endlessly from it, does not. A regular worker has to work at least 8:00 to 16:00 every day (that's 8 hours a day) to earn their pay, and the second they stop actually doing work, they will no longer earn a cent. On the other hand, most "musicians" want to only work for like a few months in the studio, then earn untold millions for life. And if you dare take that away from them, you are accused of causing them "loss of profit" (sorry pal, all you can demonstrate is *lack* of profit, to demonstrate loss you'd need to prove beyond reasonable doubt I would have bought your stuff in case piracy didn't exist, and that's crystal ball territory right there) and demand to pay back hundreds of thousands per song in damages. This is an authoritarian regime right there.

Now, as to this case in specific. Why does GoG need to be fair to iTunes users? Generally, iTunes users are wealthy enough to even afford Apple products in the first place, while GoG caters to just about everyone. By pulling his music off GoG and making it exclusive to iTunes, Vachey proved right there that he only cares about the wealthy and doesn't give a damn to millions of us who adore his music but aren't well off enough to afford Apple products, or you know, simply might want to spend less money anyway.
Dear Philippe, to force us to pay more for product from Apple that we could get for less from another company, just because *YOU* happen to be either an Apple fan, doing music for wealth rather than than passion, or both, is incredibly dishonest and portrays you as someone who, quite frankly, cares more about his own money and product preferences, than about his fans.
And I can just hope the rest of 2Dark/former Adeline is better than that. Because otherwise, I frankly see a LBA 3 that will require the latest high-end hardware, and as a result will be unplayable for 75% of the population.
Dear 2Dark/Adeline, please think of Japan where LBA 1 was popular enough to be ported to 3 or 4 different architectures! Please think of the former USSR where LBA 2 was popular enough to get at least 4 different Russian dubs! Please think of Southern, Central, and Eastern Europe which are struggling to get through this crisis and where it's hard for us to even a get a job! Please think about South America and Southern and Southeastern Asia! Please don't only think of Western Europe, Scandinavia, US, and Canada!
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  #50  
Old 2015-02-21, 13:07
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
What the? So I make a tune and suddenly it shouldnt be mine anymore?
Why? What is exactly wrong now?
Must be the folk music influence, but imho how you play a tune matters way more than what tune you play. As such, knowing who wrote a given tune is not important, knowing who plays it, is.
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