Go Back   the Magicball Network > Forums > MBN Main Forums > News
Buy LBA1/Relentless from GOG.com Buy LBA1/Relentless from DotEmu Buy LBA2/Twinsen's Odyssey from DotEmu Buy LBA2/Twinsen's Odyssey from GOG.com Buy Little big Adventure from GOG.com or DotEmu Buy Little big Adventure 2 from DotEmu or GOG.com

Welcome to the Magicball Network.

You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

News Discuss the news posted on the MBN here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #26  
Old 2012-01-19, 19:03
Jasiek's Avatar
Jasiek Jasiek is offline
Do the evolution.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: You forgot Poland.
Posts: 8,099
__________________
Little Script Adventure
Join the Little Script Adventure team
Download Little Script Adventure
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 2012-01-19, 19:24
Dino-Fly's Avatar
Dino-Fly Dino-Fly is offline
Hello
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The main issue is the copyright. If that is removed, all this problem becomes senseless.
Only in Communist systems can a copyright-free world exist, otherwise you'll have a small minority exploiting the collective knowledge of the majority(which is kinda what Communist states boils down to anyway).

That is unless everything produced in future is open-source or free-content, but the amount of donations needed for something like that is impossibly high, not to mention that the people working on such projects would earn peanuts, so production of any material that would have been copyrighted previously would plummet.
__________________
Spoiler:
Code:
#include "stdafx.h"
#include <iostream>
 
using namespace std;
 
int main()
{
  cout<<"Regards,\nDino-Fly\n";
 cin.get();
}
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 2012-01-19, 19:36
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The main issue is the copyright. If that is removed, all this problem becomes senseless.
"Throwing the baby out with the bathwater"

Without copyright, the biggest distributors win by default.

eg.
Apple wouldn't have to pay Fred anything for BoXon, they could keep all the profits themselves.
Gog wouldn't have to pay for LBA1/2 etc.

In fact, no media distrubuter would ever have to pay anything to the creators.

Film/TV would be the same. Viacom, Time Warner etc would just host their own websites playing stuff - but they could freely steal from independants as they wish.

Of course, independants could steal stuff back no problem, but they would stand little to no chance of actualy making money because the public can get everything they want from the "big boys" sites.
Indepedants couldn't compete with that purely because they dont have the inferstructure/hosting/publishing neetwork/budgets to start with.


No, Copywrite needs massive reform - but it does need to exist in some shape or form in order for creators of work not to be ripped off.


Quote:
Keep in mind that much of the demand for media is because of the media itself, so in such a situation the demand would drop.
I dissagree.
If people want, say, a great drama show, and there is none, that doesnt change the fact they want one.
Its true that sometimes people might not want something till they try it...but if theres a gap people will look elsewhere for it to be filled.

At the moment, for example, I really want a great space-based sci-fi show. But space-opera's have died on tv these days.
Still want one though.

Quote:
I do agree that internet productions of media can rival the traditional giants should, say, Hollywood collapse. But the thing is is that if internet productions at some point make big-budget productions to match Hollywood, it would require so much man-power and funds that before you know it would become just another big corperation. Remember, almost all large corperations started out from equally humble beginnings as internet productions, so switching media sources is a temporary solution at best.
Not really.
You can publish stuff online with far less middle men.

YouTube and Blip.tv can act as a distributor, but they dont claim any sort of IP or controll over your work.
If you want you can self-host completely.
The only people involved are the people directly involved with the creation (which can be a large or small group) and the hosts of the data.

This is utterly different to traditional media,which has huge numbers of people that have zero to do with the creative process. They almost always take full rights over your work, and if successfull its unlikely you will earn that much more then if its a failure. Even the writters strike of a few years back only got them 2cents or so from each dvd sale.
If they self-published, they could sale a dvd for half the normal price and still make vastly more money per sale. (as Whedon did with Dr Horrible)


Not to mention the old media is tied up with hugely stupid buecracy and ancient contracts. "this video is not avaliable in your country" need not exist.

These differences world still remain true of indepedant productions even as budgets increase. The internet is simply a more direct method for creators to publish and that is good for everyone.

--

The internet is also more of a level playing field. Blip.tv,youtube etc will publish anything - theres no one judgeing your show as "too complex" or "not appealing to the right demographics" etc.

Doesnt mean all shows will be successfull or good...far from it....but it does mean that a 5 person team can make something as popular as a 500 person team.
It also means the success of a show is purely depedant on how much the viewers value it.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 2012-01-19, 20:01
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,846
Without copyrights, Fred could take any game he wants, make it better, sell it. Anyone could buy BoXon from Apple, make it better and sell it, and there would be no problems with that, because the creator wouldn't be important.
And the quality of something wouldn't even decrease, everything gets richer and vaster when more people are contributing to it.
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 2012-01-19, 20:56
Battler's Avatar
Battler Battler is offline
Welcome to Zirla!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Koper, Slovenia
Posts: 5,316
Send a message via ICQ to Battler Send a message via AIM to Battler Send a message via MSN to Battler Send a message via Yahoo to Battler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly
A: They speak English(and the most taught variant to non-English speakers), which makes it have a far larger consumer base. And watching dubbed or translated movies very rarely retains it's original humour/meaning(for example, watching an Afrikaans movie and only relying on the subtitles is one of the most painful things I've done).
This is a complete bovine excrement. In most of Europe, even English-language movies get either subbed or dubbed. Turn on any Italian TV channel for example, and you see everything is in Italian, whether produced in US, Japan, or whatever.
Also the Japanese Ring was the highest grossing movie in Japan if I recall correctly and it got an immense popularity worldwide, which the US remake helped.

I don't think many people around the world rely on their English knowledge to watch stuff. Hell, US stuff is popular enough even in Japan itself, where most people have little to no knowledge of English due to the fact English teaching in Japan is very bad. So the language hardly has much to do here.

Quote:
B: They have the funds to show it internationally. That's due to capitalism's darwinistic nature and the passing of time. They have the money to advertise/make mainstream because people paid them money because people liked what they made. If people didn't enjoy it people wouldn't pay for it. Simple.
You're missing the problem that most worldwide media distributors don't even look at what's done outside the US, a few other major countries (mostly English-speaking ones) and locally. One exception to that however, is France where Japanese popular culture enjoys a lot of success.

Also by you logic, how could the LBA games, with a fairly small budget (certainly not an US-level budget) and with French as their primary language gain worldwide popularity?

Quote:
Given America's economic woes, destroying their media industry would be the straw that breaks the camels back. A domino effect would happen and the world would plunge into absolute chaos.
And if you exclude the economic implications all it would mean is that the BBC would fill Hollywood's shoes and a few more countries would have a slightly larger film industry. Put it this way, think of Bollywood. They make movies and are non-American, but you didn't even mention them as one of your alternative movie outlets. They're about has big as a non-English-speaking movie production area gets, and they're only that big because India's populations over a billion.
I know well about Bollywood, I just don't follow it much. But you're right, Bollywood would be one the major gainers if Hollywood went to the shits.

BTW, Japanese film production is BIG. Go to Snowblood Apple for only the horror movies made in Japan. Now multiply that amount by the number of genres produced in Japan and you'll see Japan makes a lot of movies.

Let's face it the only reason why American popular culture is enjoyed around the world while the Japanese popular culture is looked upon badly by most people outside Japan, is because of World War 2. Had Japan won World War 2, it'd be Japanese popular culture that'd be the main influence, rather than American.
__________________
Join #doki-doki on irc.ringoflightning.net for some nice chit-chat about anime, manga, and other aspects of Japanese culture now!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 2012-01-19, 21:14
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Without copyrights, Fred could take any game he wants, make it better, sell it.
And why would anyone buy it from him?

Also, he sure as hell couldnt sale it in shops - as publishers can take his work and sale it without needing his permission.

This also goes for online. Fred might have a little site himself...but compared to Apple, or Steam, hardly anyone would go there. Where would his sales come from?

Donations is all I can think off.....but even for that people need to know he made it to start with!

Quote:
Anyone could buy BoXon from Apple, make it better and sell it, and there would be no problems with that, because the creator wouldn't be important.
How would creators make anything without money from the sales?
Everyone needs to eat - not just Apple.

Quote:
And the quality of something wouldn't even decrease, everything gets richer and vaster when more people are contributing to it.
Things do get better when everyone contributes - but making things better takes effort, which normay means time, which normaly means people have to be paid.

Besides, if someone does 90% of the work and someone else adds 10% polish to the top of it, its still grossly unfair for them to claim ALL the money from its sales.

If I wrote a novel, with spelling errors, and someone else fixed them, published the book, and made a large amount of money....Id sure as hell be pissed of if I got none of it even if they did make the end result better.

(of course, in this scenario, neither of the people would get any money anyway, as
without copyright royaltys dont exist and the publisher gets everything)

--

In the ""everyone contributes"" scenario, you really want a royalty based copyright system. One that doesnt stop people using other peopkes work, but requires any sales from the work you make from it, must give a preportion back to the original creator.
I think that system could work fairly.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 2012-01-19, 21:48
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
weee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Living Quarters
Posts: 21,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
So you refuse to watch a TV show based on the language it's in? Yes, a very mature decision there. Not to mention, you could English get fan-subs anyway, just like I do when I watch Japanese anime or Japanese TV drama (or Japanese movies for that matter).
Why don't you marry Japan since you love it so much. Also, I never claimed to be mature.

--
About the other posts - In this case, I just like to sit back and let the good guys win. It's nice to let giants (Google, Wikipedia...) fight the evil gorvrnmnnemnt for us.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 2012-01-19, 21:56
Battler's Avatar
Battler Battler is offline
Welcome to Zirla!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Koper, Slovenia
Posts: 5,316
Send a message via ICQ to Battler Send a message via AIM to Battler Send a message via MSN to Battler Send a message via Yahoo to Battler
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish
Why don't you marry Japan since you love it so much.
Well sorry, I'm just tired of being spoon-fed American popular culture by local mass media here while having to resort to either piracy or paying loads of money to access Japanese (or even South Korean, etc.) popular cultures.
__________________
Join #doki-doki on irc.ringoflightning.net for some nice chit-chat about anime, manga, and other aspects of Japanese culture now!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 2012-01-19, 22:35
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,846
Darkflame : You're right, this idea isn't applicable to games, I haven't thought it tghroughly enough, this opinion is originally for eerything art-related (and I do not believe games have the level to be called art)
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 2012-01-20, 02:02
Jasiek's Avatar
Jasiek Jasiek is offline
Do the evolution.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: You forgot Poland.
Posts: 8,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Donations is all I can think off.....but even for that people need to know he made it to start with!

You've mixed up copyright and authorship - frankly I'm not that surprised since the English language/or laws? doesn't make the distinction in these two, wholly separate matters.

One thing, is to have your rights as an author (being recognised as the author, being able to ban people from selling unauthorized copies of your work, or claiming they're the author) and a wholly different thing is having absolute dominion over the life of each copy of your work.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or bad or immoral in sharing something you acquired in an honest way or copying it, or giving it away to whomever you want. In fact it's a pretty basic act, something crucial for the survival of communication or culture. The idea, that the author has the right to dictate on what terms people might share whatever he made is absurd to say the least. Once I bought something, it's mine, and I can do whatever I please with it, as long as I don't try profiting from it or claiming to be the original author.

If Leonardo Da Vinci would suddenly rise from the grave, and stroll into the Louvre to hack at the Mona Lisa would you let him? Or if he'd set out to burn every poster and digital copy of it? Of course not, once the author "let's go" (by selling or giving them away) of his work, the copies are no longer his property.

I'm sorry but that is so basic I'm not even sure why anyone would wish to discuss it, apart from greed or some other ill conceived idea.
__________________
Little Script Adventure
Join the Little Script Adventure team
Download Little Script Adventure
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 2012-01-20, 04:51
Odysseus's Avatar
Odysseus Odysseus is offline
the hobbits to Otringal
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
You've mixed up copyright and authorship - frankly I'm not that surprised since the English language/or laws? doesn't make the distinction in these two, wholly separate matters.
As I understand it any work that "can" be copyrighted is by default copyrighted. No action needed.
And a creator/author can do whatever with their creation and permit whatever use. So downloading copyrighted material is not illegal by any strech.
Uploading/publishing however.. for that you need strict written consent. Something that would get rather insane should a human need to check every file server interaction if the original file was uploaded with such.

It actually takes effort to distance yourself from your own rights.
Many websites try to help you by putting that in their TOS and all. But since noone reads those and/or the text is not in your native it has hardly any legal value.

Luckily big companys are happy to help artist take distance of your own rights. Because they simply have much to gain from taking control.

But yeah these bills in effect arnt about copyright. But just exemplary of the insane state we apparently find ourself in. Goverment workers that don't begin to even show they want to understand important matters - and so on.
Not claiming I understand much... but that much I do understand.
__________________

http://forum.magicball.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2558&dateline=1285864225

Last edited by Odysseus; 2012-01-20 at 06:46.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 2012-01-20, 05:43
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
weee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Living Quarters
Posts: 21,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
You've mixed up copyright and authorship - frankly I'm not that surprised since the English language/or laws? doesn't make the distinction in these two, wholly separate matters.

One thing, is to have your rights as an author (being recognised as the author, being able to ban people from selling unauthorized copies of your work, or claiming they're the author) and a wholly different thing is having absolute dominion over the life of each copy of your work.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or bad or immoral in sharing something you acquired in an honest way or copying it, or giving it away to whomever you want. In fact it's a pretty basic act, something crucial for the survival of communication or culture. The idea, that the author has the right to dictate on what terms people might share whatever he made is absurd to say the least. Once I bought something, it's mine, and I can do whatever I please with it, as long as I don't try profiting from it or claiming to be the original author.

If Leonardo Da Vinci would suddenly rise from the grave, and stroll into the Louvre to hack at the Mona Lisa would you let him? Or if he'd set out to burn every poster and digital copy of it? Of course not, once the author "let's go" (by selling or giving them away) of his work, the copies are no longer his property.

I'm sorry but that is so basic I'm not even sure why anyone would wish to discuss it, apart from greed or some other ill conceived idea.
Well said, couldn't agree more. I wish more people would understand that.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 2012-01-20, 14:09
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Sorry, but thats sadly bullshit.
If something is given away on mass freely by a non-creator of the work, the creator cant profit except by donations.

The right to own what you buy is not the right to copy and give it to all your friends.

The examples with Da Vinci is a crazy strawman. For one thing, his copyrights would have long expired. For another, the moment he sold a specific physical painting or sculpture then it is no longer his.
Copyright does not even remotely pretend to give such rights.

Copyright is about the right to copy.
You can do what you like with what you bought as long as you dont copy. It does not give you whole dominion - merely protection from others copying.

Sorry, its really nieve to think that without copyright the small authors would have any chance.

Big platforms would just as happly give stuff away for free to drive the competition out of buisness even if they couldnt sale it anyway
(but under US and UK laws at least without copyright they certainly could sale what they like). A lot of the biggest players here (Disney,Viacom,etc) our some of the biggest bastards on the planet. They will do this stuff.

Finaly, to my knowledge authors rights are a sub-catagory of copyright law anyway. Not a seperate thing.

Quote:
I'm sorry but that is so basic I'm not even sure why anyone would wish to discuss it,
Because no one has explained how Fred would get any money under this no-copyright scenario. Please do.

iTunes is now, say, hosting BoXon. They have ripped the code and removed any referance to Fred. This is perfectly legal as no copyright on the code or assets exist.

How does Fred make money?
How does anyone (who isnt running a large distribution system) make money from their work?

Quote:
As I understand it any work that "can" be copyrighted is by default copyrighted. No action needed.
Indeed.
Its yours by default. Exactly as it should be.

However, you cant (to my knowledge) take action about someone merely copying your work unless they have profited, miss-represented, or claimed it was theirs.

And in the specific case of sueing it should only be possible if you can prove lost earnings.

Its that last bit "proof of lost earnings" is where most anti-piracy stuff fails.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff

Last edited by Darkflame; 2012-01-20 at 14:26.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 2012-01-20, 15:22
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Seems the blackout worked well;

http://www.propublica.org/nerds/item/sopa-opera-update
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 2012-01-20, 15:26
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,846
Cool news !!!! Thanks for keeping us infomed
(I'm not a bot)
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 2012-01-20, 16:21
SpaceGuitarist's Avatar
SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
the legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Brasil
Posts: 6,985
Ah, as usual, quality discussions here in MBN. Burn SOPA, burn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
I just like to sit back and let the good guys win. It's nice to let giants (Google, Wikipedia...) fight the evil gorvrnmnnemnt for us.
So... now google is part of the good guys uh?
__________________

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 2012-01-20, 18:12
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Any enity like Google does good and bad actions. Imho, Google is mostly Good. Ditto for Wikpedia.
Facebook is also against SOPA, as well as quite a few companys I find do more dodgy things.
You cant easily divide everything into "good guys and bad".

--

But, anyway, yes, its good theres plenty of major firms "on our side" here without needing to be presured into it by public protest or opinion.

For the ones that did "flip flop" and change sides (Apple,Microsoft,NVIDIA,GoDaddy) , its always hard to tell if they did it just because of PR, or if the protests geniuely made them actualy look at what they agreed too.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 2012-01-20, 18:16
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
weee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Living Quarters
Posts: 21,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Ah, as usual, quality discussions here in MBN. Burn SOPA, burn!


So... now google is part of the good guys uh?
No, they're giants who happen to have interest in helping the good guys in this specific scenario. Anyway my point is, when something is so supported by the masses, I'm not worried about it... conservation of energy, and all. Nice to see those results Darkf posted.

..

In related news, the FBI (yes, FBI) took down MegaUpload from the internet yesterday and arrested its operators. Troubling.

..

Darkf - It is a problem. But copyrights can't be the answer. Especially when people take it to the extremes and make it radical. Copyright laws just don't work... not now, and definitely not in the future. The entire human species is becoming one big organism. Information must be allowed to flow freely. And yes, games, movies, and anything digital IS information. It's just its physical state. We can't help it.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 2012-01-20, 18:48
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
In related news, the FBI (yes, FBI) took down MegaUpload from the internet yesterday and arrested its operators. Troubling.
Just looked up an article on that. The main reason is of course the usual copyright stuff, the problem not being that they had a lot of illegual files on their servers, but that they knew it and didn't do anything about it. That's not all, they also suspect them to have a mafia-like business running (money-converting and counterfaits).
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 2012-01-20, 21:21
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Darkf - It is a problem. But copyrights can't be the answer.
They can if they were done right :P
That might mean scrapping and starting again though.

I think a few changes could at least improve things drasticly though:
* Copyright only applies if the product is for sale at a reasonable price. (say, relative to a countries GDP. Thus in Africa or other countries with low GDP products have to be cheap or copyright doesnt apply at all).
If a product isnt for sale at all - no copyright exists.

* Your allowed to use someone elses work in your own provided they get the same amount from your sales as they would from their own.

At the very least this law would ensure copyright can never be used to "block" stuff being avaliable.
====

Anyway...despite SOPA and PIPA being "on hold" disgusting things are still happening:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/20/s...says-congress/

__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 2012-01-21, 02:22
Battler's Avatar
Battler Battler is offline
Welcome to Zirla!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Koper, Slovenia
Posts: 5,316
Send a message via ICQ to Battler Send a message via AIM to Battler Send a message via MSN to Battler Send a message via Yahoo to Battler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
I think a few changes could at least improve things drasticly though:
* Copyright only applies if the product is for sale at a reasonable price. (say, relative to a countries GDP. Thus in Africa or other countries with low GDP products have to be cheap or copyright doesnt apply at all).
If a product isnt for sale at all - no copyright exists.

* Your allowed to use someone elses work in your own provided they get the same amount from your sales as they would from their own.
I fully agree with that. I however have an addendum: ensure that everything is accessible everywhere and that everything becomes accessible everywhere at the same time.
Point one is about the fact eg. under your system, while those who like what the majority likes would finally be able to get the products at a reasonable price, those like me who like what not many others in the same country like, would still have to resort to either piracy or importing which would mean buying at another country's price, in my case at Japanese price which with the current system tends to be at least twice the European price of something.
Point two is about the fact movies and music aren't always released everywhere at the same time. I've seen cases of movies already broadcast on pay TV in Italy but at the same time only a year after that hitting theaters in my country (case in point, "The Butterfly Effect" movie).

If both of my points were implemented too, this would for one allow me to enter my local enterntainment store and buy whatever I liked at a reasonable price rather than seeing some things not offered because "there's not enough demand" therefore relegating me to paying much more. For two, it would be make DVD and BluRay regions useless.

Also, let me add a third point - make copyright have a reasonable duration. That is, not more than the lifetime of the author.
__________________
Join #doki-doki on irc.ringoflightning.net for some nice chit-chat about anime, manga, and other aspects of Japanese culture now!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 2012-01-21, 12:29
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,472
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
tbh i just think battler needs to shut the fuck up about titanic for god's sake.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
there's no room for subtleties, which are so important in personalities such as mine.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 2012-01-21, 13:24
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,846
That's very rude, why do you say that !?
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 2012-01-21, 14:23
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
I fully agree with that. I however have an addendum: ensure that everything is accessible everywhere and that everything becomes accessible everywhere at the same time.
Point one is about the fact eg. under your system, while those who like what the majority likes would finally be able to get the products at a reasonable price, those like me who like what not many others in the same country like, would still have to resort to either piracy or importing which would mean buying at another country's price, in my case at Japanese price which with the current system tends to be at least twice the European price of something.
I guess adjust the "relative to GDP" thing to "a product has to be roughly the same price in each country worldwide as a % of their GDP"

A little more complex, but that means they couldn't charge more in one country then another for the same thing.

This could have interesting effects on some things - migght actualy make DVDs cheaper in Japan as typicaly they are crazy-priced compared to elsewhere.
Alternatively they wont be released elesewhere and thus piracy would be legal for them.

Quote:
For two, it would be make DVD and BluRay regions useless.

Also, let me add a third point - make copyright have a reasonable duration. That is, not more than the lifetime of the author.
Second.
x2.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 2012-01-21, 15:59
Jasiek's Avatar
Jasiek Jasiek is offline
Do the evolution.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: You forgot Poland.
Posts: 8,099
Darkflame you've missed my point again...

I would advocate "Authorship Privileges" rather then transferable "Copy Rights". An "Authorship Privilege" would state that Authorship is granted (as reason would dictate) automatically to the person or persons responsible for the work; it is non-transferable, eternal, cannot be forfeit or sold or passed on - it is a simple fact of being the author. Further on, claiming to be the author of works that can be conclusively proven to not belong to you is considered intellectual theft. A failure to cite the source of the work (unless the author wants otherwise) one is sharing would also be considered as a violation of that idea/law however not as severe if one was not implicitly claiming to be the author.

And that's all there is to it, or what I think is needed. No giant media conglomerate would start on a major campaign of sharing the works of their competitors, because they would have to cite the source - thus turning the whole endeavour into a freebie advertising campaign.


Now, regarding your ideas of controlling the prices....
If you where to control the prices to be relative to what the people in the country you're aiming for earn - you would simply create a black market economy, where goods would flow from the "cheaper" countries to the "pricier" countries, thus driving the prices down everywhere. And as possibly the labour/time costs of the work would very likely be in the "pricier" country you'd be gutting the author. Policing, or trying to dub or tailor the works to the individual market so much so they they can't be resold in other markets will only work a bit, and it will drive the costs up again (as with dubbing films). The only place I can think of it working is with books, poetry or other specifically regional works - and most often then not with non-english spoken works anyway.

A "pay what you want" method makes way more sense, as the conscious consumers in both the "cheap" and the"pricy" economy can pay as much as they thinks the author deserves, and tailor the price individually to their wallet.

So does the method of "pledging" money to projects, and the donations method.

Regarding the idea of a lifelong copyright I find the idea absurd to the extreme. With the speed of change as big as it is, both culturally and technically I would say the author might have a head start of a few years - and that's as much as I would grant him - and only if he was still selling/producing. And in the field of medicine, a lifelong copyright for new drugs would kill thousands of people who could not buy cheaper equivalent drugs.
__________________
Little Script Adventure
Join the Little Script Adventure team
Download Little Script Adventure

Last edited by Jasiek; 2012-01-21 at 16:47.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
a new dark age, censorship, copy right is evil, cultural slavery, pipa, sopa

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big thing! :D topti Fan Music 6 2011-08-03 23:58
A sad thing Dino-Fly General 51 2007-10-05 22:14
help with some thing panadol Off topic 11 2005-12-22 03:54
another thing... thursday General 4 2003-08-29 12:27
little thing Jesse Off topic 6 2001-04-22 20:31


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:11.




News Feed
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, the Magicball Network