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  #1  
Old 2001-08-31, 23:46
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Unhappy Not much activity.........

This forum is getting quite dead.....not many new intressting new threads. There's just nothing much to talk about I suppose. We could have a debate whether God exists or not. Or if the world is round. Or if mice are going to take over humankind. Or if Twinsun exists somewhere in space.
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  #2  
Old 2001-09-01, 00:08
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Okey this is it!
If I see ano.... oh wait, you actually give idea's.
That's good
That's really good

I'm just getting sick of negative aditutes, the world is already so negative

But you know what I remarked? That either our treads become sex-orientated (not on the last place because of our Saudi Arabians )
Or they become a discussion, wether it's religion or something els.

I'm actually pretty proud of our little forum
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  #3  
Old 2001-09-01, 00:31
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Well, to start a disscussion.....

I think there must be a God because other wise there wouldn't be distinced differences between animal species. If everthing evolved by the big band then today there would be half cats, half dogs, three quarter dolphines, one quater sea lions, ect. But there must have been a creator who designed things idividually. Other wise, everything would be in a mess.

I'll say more as people reply. I have got tonnes of scientific books I read about this.....;
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  #4  
Old 2001-09-01, 00:58
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Alright, I think there is a hughe possibility that a god exsists.
The way things evolve has to do with it. A planet may have water on it but something must have started that stuff called evolution. To me, God is reality itself
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  #5  
Old 2001-09-01, 01:00
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It is still alive...
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  #6  
Old 2001-09-01, 01:09
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse
It is still alive...
Eh? God? Or the forum?
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  #7  
Old 2001-09-01, 01:49
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errr both. But I did meant the forum :P
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  #8  
Old 2001-09-01, 02:49
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Yay! I LOVE controversial debates!

Erm what was I gonna say? Oh yeah. Has anyone read the Northern Lights/Golden Compass trilogy or the Nameless Day/Crucible Trilogy? They both centre around the same idea, that we are wise not because of god but in spite of him.

In the story of creation it is the tree of wisdom that Adam and Eve eat from, specifically forbidden by god, egged on by the serpent. And then they lose their naivety and, instead of being humble and being cared for in god's cushy little garden, they make a life for themselves on the hard Earth. They became wise learning how to care for themselves instead of just accepting god's care.

And the Crucible trilogy goes further and looks at the society in the 1300s. The nobles and priests were completely above the rest of society, living in splendour and luxury whilst the peasants often lived as subsistence farmers or worked for no pay for the churches. They saw this as god's ordained order on Earth, and peasants who tried to revolt against it were told, of course, that they were going to hell. Another example of how most humans were expected to be humble and submit. The church also taught that women were full of sin just because they were women, and it was god's will that they had zero power and zero possessions, and they were to be used and discarded at man's will.

Nowadays, free from the clutches of god and the Church, we see these values as archaic and horrible. We now have more personal freedom and control over our own lives, and relative equality. And we have developed much more under a secular society than under a religious one (e.g. one astronomer - was it Galileo? someone famous anyway - was exiled or killed for saying the Earth wasn't the centre of the universe).

Erm... what was my point with this? Oh yeah. If this 'theory' were true, god would not be the cause of higher evolution, but evolution would have happened in spite of him.

But anyway I don't believe there is a god so this was all pointless. Heh.
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  #9  
Old 2001-09-01, 11:55
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Why don't you?
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  #10  
Old 2001-09-01, 15:56
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Hey, don't stop now!
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  #11  
Old 2001-09-01, 15:57
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If only we suddenly found out that Fred had secretly been on Adeline all this time and he and Didier had finished an LBA3 and it was now being released into stores......very unlikely
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  #12  
Old 2001-09-01, 16:38
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CS2x - There ARE half-way species, and the world is a "mess" of animal species. The mutants that are impractical or week have died out, or didn't bred in the first place.
Evolution is the product of Choes and deep-Time, it is inavoidable.
--
Wether God exist is a completely deferent debate.
--
To start with, you first have to aknoledge that "God" is just the personfication of "Good", just as "Devil" is the personification of "Evil".
I do not believe in God in this way.
I believe in a "creator", and I believe the creator is good, but not good itself. Also, I don't believe "he" created us directly.
He created Spacetime,the constants,the rules of physics,energy,mater ect.
He then triggered the "Big Bang", or a least something simerlar, and watched from then on.
He is not infinatly powerfull, because he would make everthing perfect (because "he's" good). Also infinte power is a direct contradiction of us having "Free Will".
I believe Free Will applies to every sentient being, as such, evolution makes sense. (if God "Forced" humans to be created, that world violate free will, and because hes "good" he didn't).
--
As Atresica said "God is reality itself", I believe this too.
Because if god wasn't reality, then who created God?
--
Oh..and if you understand Relative reality...
God could exist on the next "plane" or reality, but that would mean there would have to be an even higher god...and so on.
Which is stupid, the "levels" on reality are not a tower, they are a infinate circle.
As such, there would need to be an intetial creator.
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  #13  
Old 2001-09-01, 19:31
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we shouldn't try to explain religion matters with our mind, because this is something wrong and will get us noywhere but to false results. you see, with these stories of creation, adam and eva Church isn't trying to explain HOW things happened but WHY. they are all symbolic. so, as church explains why, science explains how and we shouldn't confuse these 2
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  #14  
Old 2001-09-01, 20:21
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I do believe evolution isn't just about "the strong survive". there must be something else about evolution we don't know, but I really don't think it's "god"...
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  #15  
Old 2001-09-01, 21:18
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Quote:
Originally posted by V2
we shouldn't try to explain religion matters with our mind, because this is something wrong and will get us noywhere but to false results. you see, with these stories of creation, adam and eva Church isn't trying to explain HOW things happened but WHY. they are all symbolic. so, as church explains why, science explains how and we shouldn't confuse these 2
No religion should be thought abought because simply were the fuck did we all come fromm... when did the huge/enormous universe come from (bigbang... NOT) how did our bodies form and male perfect to fit female ( ) Ands the list goes on... but who to trust? thats the hard one... thats why god sent with evry prophet (true ones (e.g.moses,jesus,mohammed) miracles like reserection.
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  #16  
Old 2001-09-01, 21:40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame

He is not infinatly powerfull, because he would make everthing perfect (because "he's" good).
Maybe he (or they) just wanted us to evolve by ourselves and one day be perfect as him. The perfection, for be perfect, must be build...

Axx: I think really funny the way as you defend your religion. You just call the other ideas stupid and close yourself in a type of thinking. Don´t you understand that the "others" can think this too, but of you?
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  #17  
Old 2001-09-01, 22:19
Atresica Atresica is offline
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V2, axplaning religious matters is actually very good. It gives us a higher understoodment of reality.

I my opinion, they who think about life, are those who actually think.

============

Heir, I think Axx means something different
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Old 2001-09-01, 23:41
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the Heir- EXACTLY. The very fact that "he/she/it/other" allows free will is in direct opersition to the "infinatley" powerfull view of God.
--
V2 - Arhh!!!!!! (sorry)
Science is a PROCESS, that should be applied to everything. It is the process of making logical deductions based on evidance (1st or 2nd, Physical or Meta-physical).
It should be applied to relgion.
Why do you believe what you do? Because you read it? Because your parents do?
Do you honestly think these are reson's to believe something?
Why should one religious book be believed instead of an another?
We have to use are mind to make logical deductions, to work out what makes sense and what dosn't. To acknoledge that there are some things we can't know for certain, so we have to chose the most likely.
The question was about the existance of a creator, it was nothing to do with the "church" (s).
--
Axx- The big bang was neither intended to explain HOW the unverse was created, only the method by which it was.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2001-09-01 at 23:47.
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  #19  
Old 2001-09-02, 01:28
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Ok......even if half species did die out, this world is too...well....organized for it to have been created by "chance". I agree with Darkflame's points on the whole.
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  #20  
Old 2001-09-02, 01:34
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Indeed

All those atheistic scientists clame that god can't exsists because you can explane and messure everything with phisics and maths, but that IS the reason why a godlike would exsist. There is an enourmous amount of logic in it, so much that it's almost artificial.
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Old 2001-09-02, 02:00
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A good book on this is" Does God Play Dice?"

It contains a lot of scientific proof why God DOES exist. And Christianity is ruined by the church. The real meaning of Christianity is that all you have to do is love God, love others, and do constructive things. Very simple actually. Oh....and honour your parents.
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  #22  
Old 2001-09-02, 02:10
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Christianity was corrupted by powerlusted people, just like the Islam and Judism

At least, I don't considder the Soenan (if I wrote it wrong, my appologies) as a real book, because it was constucted by high priests.

As for Judism, I don't know the religion enough to give a good example, though I'm sure there is
------------------

As for the meaning of a religion, all three if these actually have the same. (thanks to the old testimonium)
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Old 2001-09-02, 15:37
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CS2x- I think "God does not play dice" was said by old Albert, in respones to Choes Theory.
This one one of the view occasions when he was wrong, all observations show that the universe is totaly unpredictable. The uncertainty precible (You can only ever know an objects location,or its speed, nether both) and curent Quatom theroys show that the universe is constantly changing by very small amounts. (both the past and future).
--
Atresica- True, although few major scientists are athest's. Any sensible scientist knows the existance of God (or at least a creator).
Interestingly Quatom theory, says we caused the Big-Bang be the very fact we obseved it.
I agree with this, it sounds weird, but quatom theory makes alot of sense.
This dosn't mean we created the universe, that would be stupid, the universe is a 4D sphere, it was created from the tempral centre.
The BB is just one Tangent of the sphere.
(Actualy I'm going to give up now, this idea is to hard to explain).
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Old 2001-09-02, 17:16
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darn.. sorry for that, i'd like to say so many things to support my views but i have a terrible lack of vocabulary in religious and scientific section that is always preventing me from saying what i really think. argggg.....
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Old 2001-09-02, 19:30
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Atre: I know he didn´t, I was referring to old posts.
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Physic laws can always be broken... there was a law that prooved the impossibilite of teletransportation. But quantum scientists brake the law...
for me we just think that we know a lot, but we don´t. Laws exist for be broken.
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