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  #1  
Old 2003-04-16, 01:11
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Cheating as a basis for games?

Cheating in online games is a bit epidemic these days .. Speed cheats in CS, autoaimers in the original tribes, trainers all over ... and let's not even mention freelancer at this point ...

So I was thinking .. Why not turn the tables? Why not make the whole point of a game to cheat?

Give you a singleplayer example - a level that's impossible to do unless you don't play fair, use a noclip cheat or similar.

But the best example must be multiplayer - cheat to win. Distribute trainers of various kinds all over the net, autoaimers, infinite health (but for who?), speed cheats .. You name it.

Now, here's the thing - introduce the instability caused by using outside cheat programs as a factor. I know I've had my game crashed plenty of times using mods in half-life for example - now imagine the degree of hazard in using five different trainers to gain maximum advantage, none of which are very well put together.
Instantly you need to balance cheating against instability - the more you enhance your abilities, the more likely you make crashing your machine.

Not to mention that it adds a spice of real risk (James Bond anybody?) - better backup that coursework before you play...

Better still, mix game types - one round might be FPS, the next RTS. How on earth does your autoaimer interact with the code when you switch from firing your uzi to tank rushing?
Better yet - randomise the game types. Three rounds, but who knows what kind of game you'll play next?
Stay sharp on that alt-tab, because you crash? You lose.

Online gaming is never fair - I have a faster PC and a T3 connection? I'm going to walk all over you in Quake deathmatch.
So we make that unavoidable injustice part of the game - the faster your PC, the more cheats you can use without destabilising yourself.... Unfair? Of course.

But if you win against the odds? Now there is kudos..

Spread trainers coded by the dev team far and wide - give me a half-dozen autoaimers, all varying in stability, and I'll show you a pokemon-esque collecting obsession. And then I'll show you fifty new trainers with god knows what problems, and god knows what benefits ...

Hide them. Charge for them. Put them in an encrypted RAR file, and force people to do the distasteful thing and find an automated RAR-cracker.
Not only that, but patch the code on a regular basis - you might have an autoaimer and an infinite resource trainer now, but who ever said that hole would be here come version 1.3?

Not, of course that you could ever get a company to release it - software designed to damage machines? To encourage violation of the DMCA? Teaching kiddies that the only way to win, sure as hell isn't to play fair?

No way. Wouldn't happen ...

(Freeware anybody?)
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  #2  
Old 2003-04-16, 02:07
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Cheating is fun - when you cheat you're beating the system.

It was cool in the Matrix - all that super-speed, super-strength? That was foul-play, that was the good-guys cheating in the game of life...

What would be interesting would be whether you'd get a subculture of people who played fair and never cheated - it would need major skill if you were up against people speed-cheating and autoaiming ... But then, maybe you could then win just by waiting till they crash themselves?
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  #3  
Old 2003-04-16, 02:48
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Yup.
Morpheus says it himself y'know.

Seriously - all of the special powers possesed by our goodies? Cheating.

"Guns, lots of guns." - and lo! Instead of obeying the rules and defined situations of the simulation and say, buying a shitload of heavy weapons, they make them appear from nowhere ...

Sounds like typing 'giveall' in the console to me...
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  #4  
Old 2003-04-16, 03:21
demonixz demonixz is offline
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NOw I think of it - introducing 'agent' figures would be the way to force people to fight dirty...

That way you could actually distribute the software, without the hacks, and leave people to find them ...
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  #5  
Old 2003-04-16, 03:50
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hey, they made it like that in CS -- its called warcraft 3 mod! I HATE IT SO MUCH!!

but, there does need to be a game where 1337 h4x0r skillz is the point. can u say, badass idea, demon?
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  #6  
Old 2003-04-16, 04:00
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Thankyou *bow*

Tried Uplink? If they extended that into an online game, it might have some of the characteristics here ..
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  #7  
Old 2003-04-16, 11:46
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Such games would be really funny
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  #8  
Old 2003-04-16, 11:51
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Xakep_INC Xakep_INC is offline
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I agree to the most except this:

Quote:
I have a faster PC and a T3 connection? I'm going to walk all over you in Quake
You'll NEVER manage to walk all over me and my team unless you are playing very well..... (/me won many matches and lost few...)

And there is a little thing that you should know. It is usual that cheaters can't play normally. The fact that they cheat won't let them be a pro in that game because they didn't work hard to get stuff. It happened a lot to me that I won people who used major cheats like "giveall" and stuff.

Freelancer is one example. I won people with super ships on level 38, but they lost. And why? Because they didn't know how to arrange their weapons well, and how to aim. And they barely knew tricks and important things about their ship type...
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  #9  
Old 2003-04-16, 12:22
Atresica Atresica is offline
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very true, only a person who really looks into things is able to win
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  #10  
Old 2003-04-16, 13:41
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The "ENTER THE MATRIX" game does have cheating in it

You can "hack" into the matrix to give yourself extra weapons and such...im not sure how its done but some interview said it was like a little bit of text adventuring.
===
However, if cheating is part of the game, is it really cheating?


and then theres the excelent card game "Cheat".
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  #11  
Old 2003-04-16, 15:23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
and then theres the excelent card game "Cheat".
YES!
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  #12  
Old 2003-04-16, 15:29
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FireBall2K
PC power / connection speed won't give you victory.

Many time I have the highest ping in JK2 and I get first place ^_^
Yeah, but it can sure help. THe point being that two skill-matched players? The one with the faster connection & machine has the advantage.

Darkflame - Good question. I wonder if it would? Whether it would still be an anti-social act is an interesting question ...
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  #13  
Old 2003-04-16, 16:09
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Astonishing how many people on other boards read that first post, and apparantly fail to understand any of it it...

"Justifying cheating cuz other people have faster connections and better PCs is lame"

Yes. Right. Because that was exactly my point. *sigh*
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  #14  
Old 2003-04-16, 17:42
demonixz demonixz is offline
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Right.
Time to simplify this, because a lot of that first post is just to take this to an extreme.

This isn't a new idea by the by, just look at the card game Cheat, or The Weakest Link, or Poker. All games that encourage foul play, dirty fighting, and outright lies respectively.
But I've never played say, an FPS that featured anything like that.

Exactly how the idea transfers to videogaming interests me...

The concept then, is why not make anti-social behaviour in a game context the accepted method for winning, but not to the exclusion of letting very skilled people win by 'normal' means.

(Hey c'mon - like this is new. Shooting somebody in the face is accepted negotiation skills in real life? Sure is in UT2003...)
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  #15  
Old 2003-04-16, 19:05
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Rustyw Rustyw is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by demonixz
Tried Uplink?
THAT GAME ROCKS!! THAT GAME IS SO AWESOME!!!
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  #16  
Old 2003-04-17, 09:39
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Y35!!!!111 1337!!!11

Sorry...

But seriously - playing a game that crashes your computer? How would that be fun apart from for adrenalin junkies? (like me, baby... )
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  #17  
Old 2003-04-17, 23:33
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demonixz, sounds like a good idea, especially for some who have cheated so much in a good game that it starts to become very boring (this happened to me with Age Of Empires, I practically cheated my whole way through the campaigns after one tough early mission). Anyway, the cheating aspect of Enter The Matrix will kind of look like the DOS prompt program, and you will be given no clue as to what you need to type in to get, for example, a certain gun, so it is a case of logic and trial and error which could make it quite fun.
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  #18  
Old 2003-04-18, 02:27
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Re: Cheating as a basis for games?

Quote:
Originally posted by demonixz
Cheating in online games is a bit epidemic these days .. Speed cheats in CS, autoaimers in the original tribes, trainers all over ... and let's not even mention freelancer at this point ...

So I was thinking .. Why not turn the tables? Why not make the whole point of a game to cheat?

Give you a singleplayer example - a level that's impossible to do unless you don't play fair, use a noclip cheat or similar.

Actually, Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal I believe has a level for orcs where you are a peon surrounded by a group of archers... gotta cheat there, or they'll kill you...

If I'm wrong, then I know for sure that Warcraft 2 has a non-campaign map exactly like that one.
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  #19  
Old 2003-04-18, 12:45
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Yes, that was one of the special levels or something
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  #20  
Old 2003-04-18, 13:42
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did i heard Uplink ??!
that game is so cool !
awesome game !


anyways, i hate cheating..it's ok if you cheat just for fun
but not online against others or to finish a game....
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  #21  
Old 2003-04-18, 17:29
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Quote:
Originally posted by HomelessTarget
anyways, i hate cheating..it's ok if you cheat just for fun
but not online against others or to finish a game....
Your dang right, one time I was playing in a CS tournament with some people online, and one person had been shaming me and my friends the whole way through about how he was beating us, which was very annoying. Annoying until we actually found he was cheating, and he got kicked off the server quicker than you can say "you rotten nasty cheat person!"
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  #22  
Old 2003-04-18, 18:44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bushmeister
Your dang right, one time I was playing in a CS tournament with some people online, and one person had been shaming me and my friends the whole way through about how he was beating us, which was very annoying. Annoying until we actually found he was cheating, and he got kicked off the server quicker than you can say "you rotten nasty cheat person!"
yeah!! I HATE CS HACKERS!!! they ruin the game OGC needs to die
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  #23  
Old 2003-04-18, 19:41
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yeah
they suck !
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  #24  
Old 2003-04-18, 22:23
Atresica Atresica is offline
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you really have to be sad to cheat during multiplayer... that's nearly as sad as cheating during a RPG (the real game, not the pc games, and if you never experienced a RPG-cheater, then take it from me, they are the worst)
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