Go Back   the Magicball Network > Forums > MBN Main Forums > Off topic

Welcome to the Magicball Network.

You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Off topic General off-topic chat goes in here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2005-10-13, 20:32
Axx's Avatar
Axx Axx is offline
The return of
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Palestine
Posts: 4,449
Linux

Ive been a proud (well, not really proud in that sense) MS windows user since 1990, when i first touched a computer. And since then havent worked with any other operating system, that is, untill 3 weeks ago, a good 15 years since i first touched a PC.

In my UNI lab, all computers are linux Redhat, so when i first entered, i was absolutly dumbfound when it came to using them. They were like dos screens, black, everything entered by command!!!

We had a lesson called PCS for 1 and a half hours, he was telling us how to work with this black window, apparently linux, i was scared shitless that this was my new linux stable GUI. Thankgod, by the click of a button (cntrl d?) it turned into a normal looking operating system!!!..

3 weeks on, and ive got soooooo much to learn (Installing sourse code seems to be a newar impossibility, much depends on your skills with the "terminal" window)

However, it also seems to run pretty damn fast and stable. This computer dosnt know the meaning of crashing, and if you tell it to do something, it wont argue, it wont display a "are you sure" it wont give you a little wizard to help you, and it wont tell u its finished doing it, it simply does it with no feedback.

Type "rm PCS" and it will delete your PCS folder, without asking you, or displaying a little paper in trash gif, and it wont send it to a wastebin, and you cant tell norton "opps i deleted this file" too late, its completely gone!!!

Maya seems to work pretty damn well with it, with the exception of some bust drivers on some of the systems. The terminal, though at first seemingly ancient and unnecessary can help you automate and do things so much faster than in a gui.

CONVERT TO LINUX!

your thoughts on linux are appreciated!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2005-10-13, 21:26
Medur's Avatar
Medur Medur is offline
LBA fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 2,778
I had my first exposition to Linux about 6~8 years ago and was hooked from the beginning. At first I suppose it was mainly the feeling of getting 'deeper' in the PC world that Linux gives you that attracted me, but with time I really fell in love with it.

I think it's quite true that Linux "puts the fun back into computing". At least for me it did.

What most people fail to realize is that, being an UNIX clone, GNU/Linux is part of a community that has been around since the 80s and has an extensive history and a lot of stuff going on. The sense of community and culture/subculture shared by UNIX users is much stronger than that shared by Windows users.

Anyway, as I only had one computer and was pretty young, I began slowly, trying a few distros here and there until I got more skilled and settled in a single one. I dual-booted for a long time, but eventually completely abandoned Windows - I discovered Slackware. I very rarely touched Windows boxes until the beginning of this year, when I finally finished my new PC and installed XP in it (this is my last school year and I don't have time to maintain a Linux box).

I don't think anything taught me more about computers than Linux did.

About the terminal... you probably already know this by now, but the Linux kernel isn't tied to user interfaces as much as the Windows kernel is. This allows for much bigger flexibility. Why would a Linux powered toaster need a GUI? Linux can be easily modified to suit your needs.

That said, if you want to have an interface you can have any interface you want. The most basic one is of course the terminal. It survived this long because it's a great interface. You can do anything from the Linux terminal, since it's not an OS like DOS but merely an interface.

Mastering the terminal is vital if you want to progress in Linux, pehaps unfortunately. You can do everything you want to do from a GUI, but you'll never truely get to know the system through one.

The fact that there is so much to learn (and indeed there is) can be discouraging, but persist. It's worth it and before you know it you'll be part of, as we call it, the text-mode guerrilla. A console ninja.

Things aren't necessarily how they seem to be for a Windows user. For an example, you mentioned how rm gives you no output nor asks for confirmation. As a matter of fact it can give you output and it can ask you for confirmation, you just have to give it some flags. Try out man rm and you'll see.

Read a lot of documentation, HOWTOs, etc. The man command is your best friend, Google is your second best friend.

Some recommended readings:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Unix-and-I...WTO/index.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Text-Terminal-HOWTO.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/index.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/XWindow-Ov...WTO/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2005-10-13, 22:18
Axx's Avatar
Axx Axx is offline
The return of
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Palestine
Posts: 4,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medur
I had my first exposition to Linux about 6~8 years ago and was hooked from the beginning. At first I suppose it was mainly the feeling of getting 'deeper' in the PC world that Linux gives you that attracted me, but with time I really fell in love with it.

I think it's quite true that Linux "puts the fun back into computing". At least for me it did.

What most people fail to realize is that, being an UNIX clone, GNU/Linux is part of a community that has been around since the 80s and has an extensive history and a lot of stuff going on. The sense of community and culture/subculture shared by UNIX users is much stronger than that shared by Windows users.

Anyway, as I only had one computer and was pretty young, I began slowly, trying a few distros here and there until I got more skilled and settled in a single one. I dual-booted for a long time, but eventually completely abandoned Windows - I discovered Slackware. I very rarely touched Windows boxes until the beginning of this year, when I finally finished my new PC and installed XP in it (this is my last school year and I don't have time to maintain a Linux box).

I don't think anything taught me more about computers than Linux did.

About the terminal... you probably already know this by now, but the Linux kernel isn't tied to user interfaces as much as the Windows kernel is. This allows for much bigger flexibility. Why would a Linux powered toaster need a GUI? Linux can be easily modified to suit your needs.

That said, if you want to have an interface you can have any interface you want. The most basic one is of course the terminal. It survived this long because it's a great interface. You can do anything from the Linux terminal, since it's not an OS like DOS but merely an interface.

Mastering the terminal is vital if you want to progress in Linux, pehaps unfortunately. You can do everything you want to do from a GUI, but you'll never truely get to know the system through one.

The fact that there is so much to learn (and indeed there is) can be discouraging, but persist. It's worth it and before you know it you'll be part of, as we call it, the text-mode guerrilla. A console ninja.

Things aren't necessarily how they seem to be for a Windows user. For an example, you mentioned how rm gives you no output nor asks for confirmation. As a matter of fact it can give you output and it can ask you for confirmation, you just have to give it some flags. Try out man rm and you'll see.

Read a lot of documentation, HOWTOs, etc. The man command is your best friend, Google is your second best friend.

Some recommended readings:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Unix-and-I...WTO/index.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Text-Terminal-HOWTO.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/index.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/XWindow-Ov...WTO/index.html
Haha, i used man (for others, its short for manual, just about any program has a manual, then again, manual not in the conventional windows "Click the install button" sense of it, more like a LOADS AND LOADS of information you may well need a cryptologist (essentialy a very experienced linux user) to decipher) But i cant say i had much luck with it. In the meantime ive been discovering cat and how to use it to string programs together, or something like that, and loads of other commands to make it all the more usefull...

Also, i have a couple of hours a week of C lectures, so i also code in Linux (very convenient) and discovered a love for programming

I really am liking linux, im thinking of switching to it completely once i have mastered it, but i have reservations, i want to play win games on it, how do i do that ?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2005-10-13, 22:20
Purple Sheep's Avatar
Purple Sheep Purple Sheep is offline
Sheepie for short
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,517
I'm currently on Gentoo Linux, which I use for pretty much everything except Windows games. That being said, I don't really know that much about it (well, much more than your average Windows user but much less than your average Linux user) as it's my brother who installed it and runs all the updates, etc. I need to learn.
__________________
MBN Wrestlefest Champion 2006

My LBA screenshots page. And some exciting games I have made.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2005-10-13, 22:28
Cyberg-Ares's Avatar
Cyberg-Ares Cyberg-Ares is offline
Little Bastard Warrior.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,640
The only other operating system I've tried is a Mac, long time ago.
-----
About Linux:
Isn't it a little stupid that you don't get a chance to regret pressing delete?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2005-10-13, 23:00
wacko's Avatar
wacko wacko is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,426
Linux is fun! It's a little hard to start out with, but it gives a boost to the overall computer experience (and I'm aware that sounds lame).

I use linux on my servers, of which one I use as virtually a second desktop computer, mainly for downloads and file management. My main computer still runs Windows for convenience and compatibility. I probably won't exclusively run Linux still for a long time. I also wouldn't want to miss my Linux servers now though, I became really dependent on them.

I started out with one of our desktop computers being obsolete, and I decided I'd give Linux a try and turn it into a server thing. Didn't work out very well, but at least I got the basics. It ran Slackware (yay for simplicity) and later Debian (yay for package management).

At university I had to learn unix to use the Suns workstations with Solaris. I already had a lot of experience so it was pretty easy, but I learned a lot of elemental unix commands (cat, grep, cut) and techniques (piping, file flows) which I didn't learn by myself. So that was quite educational too.

Meanwhile I bought a second hand pc, got another obsolete pc, received a bunch of exotic computers from university (partial mini cluster, Sun and IBM workstations) and put linux on most of them, sometimes to run permanently with a fixed server job, sometimes for fun and I forget about it later.

These are my 3 main servers I use at the moment. They all run Gentoo which is a mighty fine distro. Behold the fine ASCII arts.

Router, for serving internets:
Code:
                ______________________________________________
           NAT |   ____  ____  ___  ____  _____  _____  ____  | Pentium 200 MHz
           DNS |  (  _ \(_  _)/ __)( ___)(  _  )(  _  )(_  _) | 64 MB SDRAM
          DHCP |___) _ <__)(_( (_-._)__)__)(_)(__)(_)(___)(___| 8 GB WD Caviar
       Eggdrop    (____/(____)\___/(__)  (_____)(_____) (__)    4 GB Q Bigfoot!
          HTTP  ______________________________________________  3 PCI NICs
           etc |______________________________________________| 3 ISA NICs

[~]$ uname -a && uptime
Linux bigfoot 2.4.27 #2 SMP Sun Sep 26 21:57:26 CEST 2004 i586 Pentium MMX GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
 21:24:41 up 380 days, 16:31,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
General issue server for basic servings:
Code:
  |         |              o
  |__/ ,---.|--- ,-.-.,---..    Backup server and other interesting services.
  |  \ ,---||    | | |,---||         Pentium III 450 MHz, 256 MB, 60 GB
  `   ``---^`---'` ' '`---^`
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

[~]$ uname -a && uptime
Linux katmai 2.6.11.5 #1 Fri Apr 15 19:54:12 CEST 2005 i686 Pentium III (Katmai) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
 21:49:58 up 180 days, 22:05,  1 user,  load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.13
"Second desktop" computer:
Code:
               __  _  _______  ___  ___ ______________  __ ____
               \ \/ \/ /\__  \ \  \/  // __ \_  __ \  \/ // __ \
________________\     /  / __ \_>    <\  ___/|  | \/\   /\  ___/________________
                 \/\_/  (____  /__/\_ \\___  >__|    \_/  \___  >
                             \/      \/    \/                 \/
          AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1400 MHz, 768 MB PC133 SDRAM, 1000 GB
________________________________________________________________________________

 21:49:53 up 4 days, 46 min,  7 users,  load average: 0.16, 0.07, 0.01

[~]$ uname -a && uptime
Linux waxerve 2.6.10 #2 Sun Dec 26 22:31:49 CET 2004 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
 21:49:59 up 4 days, 47 min,  7 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.07, 0.01
I had some problems updating the last one to a more recent kernel (2.6.14rc3), hence the older version and low uptime.



I learned from my mistakes and I don't make a lot of them anymore (I usually double check my command before pressing enter), but I still sometimes slap my head... awful command typoes examples:

rm -r Blabla *
instead of
rm -r Blabla\ *

(deletes all directories instead of one with a space in the filename)

mv /some/files*
instead of
mv /some/files* .

(overwrites and empties some files instead of moving them to the current directory)


Cyberg-Ares: If you're unsure about rm (which is the delete command), use rm -i so it asks confirmation for every file to delete. You can even make an alias of this to make this the default behaviour (alias rm="rm -i"). It's not recommended though, as if you're one time using another *nix machine and expect it to be -i and it isn't, you might do something stupid
Also, the graphical linux environments (Gnome, KDE) usually have Windows like behaviour, with an explorer and a recycle bin where your files are put if you press del, etc.

Last edited by wacko; 2005-10-13 at 23:08.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2005-10-13, 23:18
Medur's Avatar
Medur Medur is offline
LBA fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 2,778
Well, keep trying to find your way with man because chances are you'll be using it a lot. It's quite simple, really. You use man <command> to start it and the up and down arrow keys to read it, and then 'q' to quit it. The manual sections and instructions should be pretty self-explanatory.

The rm manual for an example says you need to use the '-i' option in order to "prompt before any removal". Thus you'll do just that:

# rm -i foo.bar

The thing you discovered with cat is called UNIX piping. It's an essential feature, very useful indeed.

As for playing Windows games in Linux, it's doable. Wine is able to run many Windows programs well enough, and Cedega, a fork of Wine directed at gaming, supports many games.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2005-10-13, 23:43
wacko's Avatar
wacko wacko is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,426
Also command --help (for example ls --help) usually gives a quick overview of the command's functionaliy, so you don't need to dive in a man file while you're in the middle of something. You'll need basic knowledge about the commands of course, though.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2005-10-13, 23:52
takashi_maze's Avatar
takashi_maze takashi_maze is offline
Magic Level: Red Ball
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 159
Send a message via MSN to takashi_maze
If I could use all the apps and games I use now, I would but I can't Besides, I've had XP for 2 years now and it's never crashed on me... Unlike ME which crashed every 30 minutes if I was lucky xD
I've had Linux before though. And still have a couple of distro's. It really isn't for me though.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2005-10-13, 23:56
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
Good thing I stumbled across this thread, cause I got a Linux question:
Does Linux have a special icon format? Or just it just use .ICO files? Or maybe even PNG's?

Can anyone answer me?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2005-10-13, 23:59
wacko's Avatar
wacko wacko is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,426
The graphical shells I've seen use mainly .PNG for icons.



(I see an .xpm between there too, dunno what that is.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2005-10-14, 00:07
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
Mmkay, thanks. You should get a better Firefox PNG btw
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2005-10-14, 00:11
Medur's Avatar
Medur Medur is offline
LBA fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 2,778
A variety of formats is used, mainly PNG as wacko said. SVGs are the current trend, though - those are vectorial images, easy to resize etc.

XPM is a pretty old format. WindowMaker still uses it I believe.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2005-10-14, 00:31
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
SVG's sounds nice, and I understood Firefox's next release will support webpages with SVG images.

It's a pain making SVG images though, I like the good old pixels...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2005-10-14, 03:36
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
I'll certainly not be getting Longhor...sorry...vista...

Windows 2000 and 98 are on my system at the moment quite happly.

When the time comes i'll add a linux on to that.

I am still hopeing for a Linux destro with a Google-made interface

Linux = Stable
Google = Bloody good at interfaces.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2005-10-14, 14:33
elmuerte's Avatar
elmuerte elmuerte is offline
Master of Science & Magic
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 8,236
It's pretty stupid to delete files when you don't want them to be deleted.
It's very annoying to confirm every action when you just want to delete it. Also interactive console commands prevent nice integration for automation.

Also note there is often a "dry run" or "simulate" feature, this will simulate the things it will do before actually doing it (no rm doesn't have one).

xpm is X Pixel Map, pretty much like a bitmap, but system independed
about the icon format, it depends on the window manager you use what formats are accepted. The larger windows managers (GNome, KDE, Enlightment, WindowMaker) often support a lot of different types. I hover prefer more slim windows manager like a Blackbox like window manager. It kinda depends on what I want to do, I spend most of my time in linux on a console.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2005-10-14, 14:37
bunnyrabbot02's Avatar
bunnyrabbot02 bunnyrabbot02 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,515
I tried Linux at work, but it's not anything I would work with at home by myself.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2005-10-14, 15:09
Cyberg-Ares's Avatar
Cyberg-Ares Cyberg-Ares is offline
Little Bastard Warrior.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Muerte
It's pretty stupid to delete files when you don't want them to be deleted.
Yeah of course, but that's not what I meant. Like, my cat likes to jump up on the desk to sleep on the keyboard. Accidents can happen. Or maybe I downloaded a trailer, saw it, deleted it, but my brother comes home and wants to see it. Okay, it's still "sorta" there.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2005-10-15, 03:04
Axx's Avatar
Axx Axx is offline
The return of
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Palestine
Posts: 4,449
Thats the part where my PCS tutor was saying "Take a moment to think about the file before you delete it"
Worse though is when you write rm *.tiff, because a simple space will mean linux deletes all the files and searches for a file called .tiff in that folder, meaning, your fucked. But linux isnt for amatures, its for the serious professinal. And its features makes it perfect for a pro.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2005-10-15, 03:22
Echomote's Avatar
Echomote Echomote is offline
a well established member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,426
Send a message via MSN to Echomote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
I'll certainly not be getting Longhor...sorry...vista...

Windows 2000 and 98 are on my system at the moment quite happly.

When the time comes i'll add a linux on to that.

I am still hopeing for a Linux destro with a Google-made interface

Linux = Stable
Google = Bloody good at interfaces.
I just couldn't wait I made my own xfwm4 window border skin

Here's a nice screenshot:

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2005-10-15, 03:34
Medur's Avatar
Medur Medur is offline
LBA fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 2,778
Isn't that Xfce?
Pretty nice anyway.

Edit: Ah, xfwm4 is the window manager, Xfce is the DE. Stupid me.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2005-10-15, 03:36
Echomote's Avatar
Echomote Echomote is offline
a well established member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,426
Send a message via MSN to Echomote
Yes, xfwm4 = xfce window manager .. 4..

xfce is fast and pretty
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2005-10-15, 04:37
DedalousDiggle DedalousDiggle is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan2552
Yes, xfwm4 = xfce window manager .. 4..
Uh... *blink* *blink*
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2005-10-15, 15:47
elmuerte's Avatar
elmuerte elmuerte is offline
Master of Science & Magic
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberg-Ares
Yeah of course, but that's not what I meant. Like, my cat likes to jump up on the desk to sleep on the keyboard. Accidents can happen. Or maybe I downloaded a trailer, saw it, deleted it, but my brother comes home and wants to see it. Okay, it's still "sorta" there.
yh.. right.. if it can is able to type "rm ..." and enter without any mistakes then it's a pretty smart cat. Usually it would be something like "r5tttttttttttttttttttttttttttnm " just for the "rm" part
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 2005-10-15, 23:38
scatmantom's Avatar
scatmantom scatmantom is offline
Sc@tman
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London UK
Posts: 62
i think linux is evil...its that penguin he has something against me
__________________
skeee bop bop badap bo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LINUX -> LBA HQR HQR Editor kat15pl LBA Modifications - General 10 2005-11-06 14:40
LBA 1 and 2 on Linux? trezy First aid 10 2005-06-27 01:08
Linux? SebZ General 5 2005-03-13 02:50
Linux Atresica Off topic 42 2001-02-22 17:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:50.


News Feed
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, the Magicball Network