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  #1  
Old 2002-02-20, 21:29
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elmuerte elmuerte is offline
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Save the world (at least, europe)

http://petition.eurolinux.org/
Sign that petition to save software development in europe
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  #2  
Old 2002-02-20, 21:53
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I'm not too sure.
The patent system is screwed in the moment in many areas (the oringinal idea was to patent inventions~not discoverys).
But I don't see anything wrong with patenting computer code
If I devise a particularly amazing programe, I'll want roylties.
I don't get whats wrong with that.
--
Unliked other things being patented at the moment, computer code seems like an invention to me.
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  #3  
Old 2002-02-20, 22:11
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hmmm. . . .i don't think i have seen El start an thread ever. . .cool
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  #4  
Old 2002-02-20, 22:52
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srue i will sign that petetion anytim m8
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  #5  
Old 2002-02-20, 23:11
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Omg! You started with that "m8" thing too?

About that petition, I won't sign it because it won't change anything. why people bothers making those things?
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  #6  
Old 2002-02-20, 23:25
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You didn't thought that sentence was serious, did you?
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  #7  
Old 2002-02-21, 00:27
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Chaosfish you're saying it as if saying m8 was a bad thing
m8m8m8m8

im talking about the M-8 automatic gun

lol


anyway Wacko how were we supposed to understand it wasn't serious?
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  #8  
Old 2002-02-21, 00:33
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChaosFish
Omg! You started with that "m8" thing too?

About that petition, I won't sign it because it won't change anything. why people bothers making those things?
Your not serious are you?
I'm not signing because I don't agree, but you should sign if you agree.
"I won't sign because it won't change anything"
Thats just dumb logic man.
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  #9  
Old 2002-02-21, 00:37
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Oh and why do you think it's dumb?
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  #10  
Old 2002-02-21, 01:36
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Here's a fact, 99.9999% of the time....software petitions don't work.
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  #11  
Old 2002-02-21, 04:01
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I wouldn't mind signing the petition, only I don't believe in it. Sorry to say, but data is data, and legally or illegally its gonna be passed on. Sorry.
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  #12  
Old 2002-02-21, 10:42
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In the US the GIF image format is patented. Because of this everybody who uses should pay money to Unisys (the patent holder). You may not write a program that can write or read GIF fileswithout pating Unisys.

If there were software patents 20 years ago you would only have 1 wordporcessor, 1 spreadsheet, 1 image editor, etc ...
Software patents don't allow you to create competing software programs.
If MP3 was patented you would have only one expensive encoder and one expensive decoder, and not freeware.

Before we know it we will also get the "Mikey Mouse" effects on patents in europe. Everytime the Mikey Mouse patents tends to expire in the USA they change the law so they can extend the patent.
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  #13  
Old 2002-02-21, 11:48
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No, that don't make sense at all.
If a format is patented, it dosn't prevent devolpment.
Patents would force people to make new software, with new formats.
It would reduce compatability, but it certainly wouldn't stop developmeant.
-
Besides, FORMATS (Gifs,Jpegs) are not software.
They are not programes, so they should not be able to be patented.
What should be patented is the compression/decompression techniques used to make them, not the format itself.
-
And if MP3 was patented, you get an unofficial thing that worked on the same format but it a slightly different way. (like MPEG4/Divx)

--
Lightwing - The law could be a lot worse WITHOUT them.
If you don't sign it you won't have ANY effect, at least signing it you have a slight effect.
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  #14  
Old 2002-02-21, 23:59
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You are wrong...
The patents are meant for software techniques .. not software programs it self. A patent on a program is useless since nobody may copy it anyway (every program is automaticaly protected by the copyright law)

New software with new formats are 100% useless. For every single piece of data you would need to buy a viewer if you didn't create it your self. Sharing knowledge would become quite impossible.

If a format is patented it will stop a lot of development, only some big companies would be able to write software that can read that format. Freeware would not exist. That why almost all formats are open. MPEG4 and DivX are 100% legal, there is no patent on the MPEG format, it's an open standard.
Unofficial things won't last long.. for example, DeCSS the DVD encryption code decoder was slayn to death by Xing (official patent holder). These things will only last in the illegal scene for a while. DivX was never illegal, the only thing the creators of DivX did was to create a new combined format using MPEG4 for video and MP3 for audio. They did however hack a Windows library so they could save their new combined format to avi. DivX uses the Windows MCI for processing, the standard driver didn't allowed saving to the avi format. That same library was used by the MS ASF file format.
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  #15  
Old 2002-02-22, 11:01
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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I think I agree with El. But that again, in the same way you can say nothing should be patented...
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  #16  
Old 2002-02-22, 22:58
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El_Muerte - Lets say I was the inventor of the wheel.
I patented it.
It dosn't matter if it was made out of wood, steal, or stone.
If it works the same way, then the patent covers it.
Copywrite only protects the things from being copyied exactly.
-
You can make something that use's 0% of the oringinal code, but works in the exact same way.
Its HOW the software works thats important.
And thats what should be patented.
Copywrite just dosn't give the author protection.
==
Quote:
If a format is patented it will stop a lot of development, only some big companies would be able to write software that can read that format. Freeware would not exist. That why almost all formats are open. MPEG4 and DivX are 100% legal, there is no patent on the MPEG format, it's an open standard.
But formats arn't code!
They are just protocal.
I agree they shouldn't be patented,
as I said before the compression/decompression techiniques would be patented. But there are many ways to reach the same format.
In fact patenting the compression technique would force companys to invent new ways of doing it.
Increasing diversity.
And the person who inventes the most effient technique would probably get the most royalites~and so he should!
--
What you on about?
I never said Divx was illegal, I was just pointing out the same format can be arrived at in a different method.
==
Oh and the freeware would not exist thing is just plan stupid.
====
====
The main good thing about patents is the company that done it would be forced to release their source code.
Eg.
If Microsoft patented Windows, they would have to release the source code.
Just like any invention, people would be free to make there own versions as long as they work in different ways.

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  #17  
Old 2002-02-23, 01:09
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I signed to support (well if i plan to live there and get european nationalities... why not)
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  #18  
Old 2002-02-23, 01:42
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Wasn't there some company that tried to patent a 3D software engine? (Was it the Messiah engine?) Which would effectively have stopped most other new-generation engines being created. As you said, it's HOW it works that is important. I don't think that would have been too helpful to the games industry.

But on the other hand, no-one bats an eyelid about the fact that Philips gets paid for use of the CD, and some consortium gets paid for use of the DVD (that's why both of those have specific logos that have to be used everywhere).
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  #19  
Old 2002-02-23, 02:56
johnnybrubacker johnnybrubacker is offline
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sign the petition to save family guy and futurama.
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  #20  
Old 2002-02-23, 03:14
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AGREED!
(can we add "God, The Devil, & Bob" onto the list)
--
Kieron--It would only stop engines being created that used the same technique.
You see, with patents things balence.
If the techniques not worth the price you charge, then people won't use use it.
If the engines wasn't good enough, then new ones would come along.
But if it was the best, and it because the standared technique, then the inventor would be rewarded though royalties.
Of course, it would be imporved.
But if your still using the basic technique, then you would owe the inventor a percentages of any profits you make.
Any improvements to the patent could also be patented, and so on infinitium.
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  #21  
Old 2002-02-23, 15:32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
El_Muerte - Lets say I was the inventor of the wheel.
I patented it.
It dosn't matter if it was made out of wood, steal, or stone.
If it works the same way, then the patent covers it.
Copywrite only protects the things from being copyied exactly.
-
You can make something that use's 0% of the oringinal code, but works in the exact same way.
Its HOW the software works thats important.
And thats what should be patented.
Copywrite just dosn't give the author protection.
The current draft of computer software patents don't limit in anything. You can even patent a concept and thus prohibit anyone from creating something on the same concept. So even builing a plastic wheel would be in violation with the patent.
Patents are just plain evil, they don't fit in the free world, patents can rule out compition.
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  #22  
Old 2002-02-23, 22:23
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Thats the point, a plastic wheel is still a wheel.
The people that change the world are the inventors, and the only way they get rewarded is though patents.
If it wasn't for patents, companys could just copy any indeviduals idea.
In fact, without patents we would just end up with one big company.
eg.
I invent a new method of generating power, I can't get funding without telling the method to someone.
That someone might have more money, resources ect.
He steals the idea, gets the money from it sets up a company.
Without patants, this company is now free to copy any oringinal idea that any smaller company has.
It steals the idea, makes it, makes money, steals another idea...ect..ect.
Without patents, any company is free to rip of and nick ideas.
-
Without patents, no new companys could would
Everyone would be free to rip of eachothers ideas, and it would be the powerfull companys that would explote the ideas first (and cheapest).
Inventors would be scared to share their ideas.
Patents make compantition possible.
==
You don't seem to understand the patent system.
A concept can not patented.
Only the method used to make that concept work. (but that does not mean the exact physical or metaphysical things to make the method work).
eg,
I cannot patented "A way to make vechiels move smoothly"
I CAN patent a precise circular device that can be attach to a frame. (patents require digrames showing HOW the thing works- In the main example, this would be the souce code)
-
Unless they have done something very stupid, patenting a concept in computer code probably means patenting the method of how the code works.
(eg, so the aurthor is still protected even if the code is converted to another computer langerage)
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  #23  
Old 2002-02-25, 11:26
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If patents was a tool for the individuals to protect their inventions they would have made it free.
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  #24  
Old 2002-02-25, 13:24
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In ideal world, Yes.
The patent office costs money to run.
The majority of the money goes into checking your invention hasn't already been invented.
This is quite a large task, that has to be done manualy.
-
You should look though some old patants sometime, you get some quite interesting ones.
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