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  #1  
Old 2004-08-28, 03:40
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Exclamation SquareSoft/Enix is a plagiarizing SoA

A friend showed me the trailer to FinalFantasy 12 a few days back. After taking a look, I was shocked at how much resemblence it had to "Skies of Arcadia." Being intruigued by this "co-insidence" I looked furthur and discovered that not only had SquareSoft/Enix borrowed from Skies of Arcadia, but it freaking blatently STOLE from it.

Here are some examples to explain as to why I said this:

In the trailer, we discover that the world of FF12 consists of floating islands and flying 16th century ships. Although these themes have been used before, there is also the idea of "air pirates" (who are also portrayed as good guys, like in SoA). So, let's see... floating islands....flying ships....air pirates...where have I heard all that before?

Now, about the character similarities:

Let us begin with taking a look at the hairstyle of the main character's primary sidekick:

This is Aika

This is Penelo (to the right)

Both are main character's sidekicks. Both have same hair style. What a co-insidence.

Fina and Ashe:

This is Fina

Here is Ashe

Hmmm....

Gilder and Balfrea:

Here's Gilder

Here you have Balfrea doing an all too familiar pose

Sure, they don't look too alike, but check out Balfrea's pose. Also, they are both sky captain pirates, and they both have big guns....anybody else's sees the connection?

In addition, both of them get captured and locked up in a prison cell, afterwhich the foreboading character "The Judge" makes his appearance. The resemblence between FF12's Judge and Skies of Arcadia's "The Executioner" are dim in appearances, but the ideas of them as characters in the games are quite alike. I heard that "The Judges" were characters from FF Tactics. Still, there is a connection amongst the two.

Moving on...

Check the character designs of these two guys:

Alfonzo

Another guy: Pic2Pic1Pic3

Maybe they're both siblings??? Maybe that's why they look so alike?

Anybody remember Piastol from SoA:Legends? Of course you do:

Now, take a look at Fran

Notice the hair color and the black attire.


Did I mention, that in FF12 there is also a dominating force called "Arcadian Empire"? Something about that name sounds familiar....can't...put my finger on it...

Finally, at the end of the trailer, we see this quote appear on the screen (probably comming from Vaan, the main character of FF12, who, also happens to be 17 years old):

"Someday, I'll fly on an airship of my own!...A sky pirate, free to go where I will."

Well, now, that pretty much quotes Vice streight out of the game.

Man, OH, man, can you say "complete rip-off?"

I never thought that something like Square would do a thing like that. Their potential for originality has definetly been lost.

Somebody needs to do something about this whole thing. I mean, of course, certain connects seem a bit too superficial. But if you bring all of them together and take a good look, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize it.
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  #2  
Old 2004-08-28, 05:05
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Jesus fucking Christ.
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  #3  
Old 2004-08-28, 05:08
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That's right.

The wonderful SquareSoft that everybody LOVES and ADORES, is a frelling plaigerist!

DEATH TO SQUARE SOFT!

Last edited by Lightwing; 2004-08-28 at 06:54.
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  #4  
Old 2004-08-28, 13:09
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Whoa. I can't say I'm surprised, though.
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  #5  
Old 2004-08-28, 13:52
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Hahahahahahahahaha.

Looks like I was eventually right, it makes me sad that Pandemona isn't here to see this.

But yes, this does suck.
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  #6  
Old 2004-08-28, 13:52
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Again, I really can't believe my eyes

I very much agree with SDX statement
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  #7  
Old 2004-08-28, 14:15
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Thats terrible
Havnt goit around to playing Skies of Arcadia yet..its on my list sometime though.

Reminds me of this:
http://www.newgrounds.com/lit/atlantis.html
(there was a reasonable counter-essay dissproveing some of the points, but nothing that explained the huge simerlarity in charecters)
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  #8  
Old 2004-08-28, 14:18
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hmmmm.... who was Skies of Arcadia made by?

I think this is wrong, but do we know if SSoft have bought the rights? (I'm guessing that they haven't by the title) I've never played SoA but me friend told me to get it, and I will choose it over FF12.
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  #9  
Old 2004-08-28, 14:51
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It is hard to believe, even with all the evidence. After all, Square delivered already good things in the past.
That's why I'd rather hear the opinions of Square-Enix and whoever developed SoA (Sega?) about that conspiracy theory.
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  #10  
Old 2004-08-28, 15:47
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Skies of Arcadia is done by Sega

It would be wise of Square to release a statement about this anyway, considdering there is enough for Sega to sue them for.
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  #11  
Old 2004-08-28, 15:49
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Ok.

1) The characters which according to you look the same, don't.

2)I know several games with the name "Arcadia" used in them.

3)Flying ships aren't exactly a new concept, you know.

4)The events you described in both games probably happened in another 112412 other games. For christ's sake, the whole judge thing reminds me of how Twinsen gets locked in a cage and FunFrock makes his appearance.

5)Square does not need to borrow ideas. You'd think they're great achievements in the past would have tought you that.
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Old 2004-08-28, 16:34
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I agree with Anakin. I was writing a post like that yesterday but I got lazy.

You're really really exaggerating. Especially about the flying ships thing which is a quite old and extremely overused concept.

The characters don't even really look alike.

OMFG! I know this TV series that totally ripped off Skies of Arcadia! Joan of Arcadia!!!

The being free thing is also extremely common and cliché in many anime/rpg games.

Really, I think you can say ANYTHING ripped off ANYTHING comparing the way you did. This is the typical "the conclusion doesn't have to be truth, if the argument seems reasonable enough" kind of thing.
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  #13  
Old 2004-08-28, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atresica
Skies of Arcadia is done by Sega
Made by Overworks, published by Sega. I think.
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Old 2004-08-28, 20:27
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Lightwing, i'm hereby requesting you to take back your accusation, because i think it is unfair and untrue.
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Old 2004-08-28, 21:10
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Well, it sounds like Lightwing has actualy played both games....
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  #16  
Old 2004-08-28, 21:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Ok.

1) The characters which according to you look the same, don't.
Did you NOT see Penelo and Aika? Check their hairstyle. EXACTLY the same. Even the little brads that hold their hair together are the same freaking color. Sure, the facial features look different due to style and Penelo's hair isn't exactly red, but man, if Square had copied the character exactly, then I wouldn't even be here telling you any of this.

Quote:
3)Flying ships aren't exactly a new concept, you know.
No they're not. But, flying ships, floating islands in the sky and sky pirates portrayed as good guys, isn't exactly a NEW concept. Skies basically originated that idea. I've known of a lot of games and movies that implemented those elements, but NEVER all three of them. The fact that FF12 just happens to contain all that is just a LITTLE suspicious.

Quote:
4)The events you described in both games probably happened in another 112412 other games. For christ's sake, the whole judge thing reminds me of how Twinsen gets locked in a cage and FunFrock makes his appearance.
I never made a big deal about the Judge. And I never really disclosed any events as being common in both games. I just said that the THEMES and character designs are "borrowed."

Quote:
5)Square does not need to borrow ideas. You'd think they're great achievements in the past would have tought you that.
Oh, don't they, now? Did you also know that Squal from FF8 had his attire and facial features "borrowed" from a popular Japanese rock star Gackt of Malice Mizer? Square Soft basically admitted it. Was it a rip-off? Not exactly. Is Square original? No. No it's not.

Quote:
2)I know several games with the name "Arcadia" used in them.
So do I. Longest Journey is one of them. But in longest journey, unlike in FF12, there's no flying 16th century looking ships, with floating islands, and sky pirates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medur
You're really really exaggerating. Especially about the flying ships thing which is a quite old and extremely overused concept.
Did you actually READ what I typed, or did you just half glanced it? I admitted at some stuff being loose connections. BUT, once you get dozens and dozens of coincidences, those coincidences become intentional. You take everything I said, and you put it together. Hack, you haven't even played Skies, otherwise you would have noticed at least half of what I claim. I haven't exactly played FF12 either, but from what I have ALREADY seen, is blatantly obvious. Almost everybody that has played Skies of Arcadia admitts it. Even those that doen't exactly love the game, see the obvious.

As for the flying ships, I've explained myself only a dozen times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Lightwing, i'm hereby requesting you to take back your accusation, because i think it is unfair and untrue.
I agree. I completely agree. I think it's ABSOLUTELY unfair, that people will be buying the game, thinking "Oh man, this is such a masterpiece, the story and the characters are so amazing and original! SquareSoft is God!"

THAT, is unfair.

Untrue? Well, we shall see about that when FF12 comes out.
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  #17  
Old 2004-08-28, 21:34
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Quote:
Did you actually READ what I typed, or did you just half glanced it? You take everything I said, and you put it together.
Yes, I actually READ what you typed, if I haven't actually READ what you typed, then I wouldn't have POSTED.

Quote:
I admitted at some stuff being loose connections. BUT, once you get dozens and dozens of coincidences, those coincidences become intentional.
No, if they're all loose connections, they're STILL loose connections.

Quote:
Hack, you haven't even played Skies, otherwise you would have noticed at least half of what I claim. I haven't exactly played FF12 either, but from what I have ALREADY seen, is blatantly obvious.
Your logic amazes me.

Quote:
Almost everybody that has played Skies of Arcadia admitts it. Even those that doen't exactly love the game, see the obvious.
Eat shit! Two billion flies can't be wrong.

-

Quote:
Did you NOT see Penelo and Aika? Check their hairstyle. EXACTLY the same. Even the little brads that hold their hair together are the same freaking color. Sure, the facial features look different due to style and Penelo's hair isn't exactly red, but man, if Square had copied the character exactly, then I wouldn't even be here telling you any of this.
For fuck's sake, it's a ponytail. Afaik SoA did NOT invent ponytails. Square has professional gay character designers to create their effeminate characters and trendy girls, they do NOT have to borrow from another games.

Quote:
No they're not. But, flying ships, floating islands in the sky and sky pirates portrayed as good guys, isn't exactly a NEW concept. Skies basically originated that idea. I've known of a lot of games and movies that implemented those elements, but NEVER all three of them. The fact that FF12 just happens to contain all that is just a LITTLE suspicious.
Just a little indeed.

-

Am I doing this because I think Square is original? No. Nobody's original. I'm doing this because I certainly believe Square did not ripoff Skies of Arcadia, and that's it.
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  #18  
Old 2004-08-28, 21:38
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Have you played the game?
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Old 2004-08-28, 21:40
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No. Have you?
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  #20  
Old 2004-08-28, 21:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightwing
Did you NOT see Penelo and Aika? Check their hairstyle. EXACTLY the same. Even the little brads that hold their hair together are the same freaking color. Sure, the facial features look different due to style and Penelo's hair isn't exactly red, but man, if Square had copied the character exactly, then I wouldn't even be here telling you any of this.
I actually thought that was the worst example.
But yeah, they don't look that much alike.
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Old 2004-08-28, 21:48
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Do you actually mean that, or are just saying to disagree with me? Because frankly, not noticing the similarities between the two, I would have to say you're blind.

Seeing as how most of the people who claim me wrong, have not played Skies of Arcadia, I'll leave you be.

Let everyone believe of the great concepts that SquareEnix has developed. Think what you will, but I know the truth.

One dude said, "I don't know how to define pornography, but I know it when I see it."

I may not be able to give you 100% proof (yet) that Square has ripped. But I know, from what I have seen so far and the blantant messages that many of you seem to ignore, that Enix has plagiarized.

But you know what? I don't care anymore. Because in the end, FF12 will never be half the game Skies of Arcadia is. How do I know this? No fake can ever stand up to the original.
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  #22  
Old 2004-08-28, 23:23
Atresica Atresica is offline
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*applauds for Lightwing*
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Old 2004-08-29, 00:21
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I only see slight resemblence Fina and Ashe.
And I don't need to play SoA to say that.

I think this is one of the cases of something that you see certain similar things between 2 things you compare, and then the other elements, even when not really suitable, are forced to be suitable in a way.

And I'm not just saying that to be annoying.
So please don't cry.
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Old 2004-08-29, 00:45
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-_-

Hmm, you haven't really played ff12, but you "know" SoA is better.
Medur was right, you have very interesting logic.

Using your logic, I could "prove" why Chronicles of Riddick is a rip off of the Olsen twins.

You actually think Square needed to rip off CHARACTERS for SoA,
I mean, i could understand ripping off stories or ideas, but CHARACTERS?!
Do you think it is so hard to invent a character without a pony tail?
Do you think the entire staff of square soft couldn't think of one single hair style, so they had to steal one?
Even I can desgin a hair style.
Use your brains for fuck's sake.

Tetsuya Nomura doesn't need to steal hair styles -_-


But, maybe you're right.
Maybe the people who've given good characters in the past magically lost all of their talent. it could happen!
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  #25  
Old 2004-08-29, 00:56
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You're a big drama queen.

But alright. Since you insist.

Firstly, let's take a look at what Final Fantasy XII is.

"The story is set in the world of Ivalice, the same world as the one seen in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Final Fantasy Tactics (though in the latter only the world name is the only similarity). The buildings and architecture appear to be Mediterranean in style."

- Wikipedia Final Fantasy XII section

"Taking place in the magical world of Ivalice, which only appears to share the name of the world of Playstation hit Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is the story of Marche, Mewt and Ritz, three misfit children who live in a small town named Ivalice, but find themselves transported to the realm of the same name after discovering an ancient magical book. This magical realm appears to be a manifestation of the video game "Final Fantasy," which the three children have played. Fans have speculated that this game is actually Final Fantasy XII, and that this is the link between the two games that developers have continually mentioned. Whether this is true or not remains to be soon as of 30/07/04."

- Wikipedia Final Fantasy Tactics Advance section

"The upcoming Final Fantasy XII game is also apparently set in the world of Ivalice, continuing the nascent trend begun with FFX-2 of placing games in previous games' settings. The developers have made it clear that FFT characters will not be making an appearance in that game."

- Wikipedia Final Fantasy Tactics section

As you can see, FFXII will be set in an already existing world. And it's possible that it has been planned for a long while. Hmm.

"This game featured various vehicles for use in crossing different terrains, including a pirate ship, a canoe, and ultimately an airship."

"400 years prior to the game's opening, violent storms sunk a massive shrine that served as the center of a sea-based civilization, and the Water Orb went dark. At approximately the same time, a people known as the Lefeinish, who used the powers of the Wind Orb to create space stations ('Sky Castles') and airships watched their country decline as the Wind Orb went dark. This caused the wind to stop, and the airships and all but one Sky Castle dissipated or tumbled from the sky."

- Wikipedia Final Fantasy section, about FFI. FFI is from 87.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV

In Final Fantasy IV, as you can see, there're pirateish medieval airships. I was going to post more of Final Fantasy with a simmilar theme, because there're many more examples, but I got bored halfway through it. My point is pirates/airships/etc are not new and have been used IN Final Fantasy before, in simmilar ways that it was used later in Skies of Arcadia. Flying towns, I can only think of the flying town in Xenogears now, but I'm sure there're more aswell.

"Preliminary trailers suggest that the game will have a graphical style extremely similar to Vagrant Story--a previous work of FFXII's new director Yasumi Matsuno."

" The characters are similar to those in Final Fantasy X in design, and all five races of Ivalice will be represented. (Final Fantasy X also had 5 races, and racial bias was an important theme throughout the game.)"

- Wikipedia Final Fantasy XII section

As you can see, they're basically ripping off Vagrant Story and FFX.

Now, I've stumbled upon some screenshots of Final Fantasy Tactics (which has, by the way, been released in 97):

http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/psx01...syTactics.html
http://www.ffshrine.org/fft/fft.php

Notice the hair-style of the girl.

I'd dare to say that the Ashe character you mentioned looks a lot like Terra, from FFVI. Again, surely there're other examples.

Gilder and Balfrea. They don't look alike. It's presumeable that the airships would have captains, and it's highly possible that they'd be men, as it's highly possible that they'd use guns. What's the problem with that?

Alfonzo and "Another guy". The designs are really not that alike, not to mention "Another guy" looks a bit like Tidus from FFX, and a character from FFV or FFVI whose name I forgot (with white hair). There's a CGI scene from the PS re-releases where that character appears and he looks a LOT like "Another guy". I'll look further into that.

Anyhow. By what I am seeing, Squaresoft is basically taking a lot of concepts from past FF games and recycling them. They're not ripping off Skies of Arcadia. I hope you can make sense out of this messy post.

Last edited by Medur; 2004-08-29 at 13:03.
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