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The Relentless Movie project The general for of The Relentless Movie Project. The goal of this project is to make a CG movie of Relentless.

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  #1  
Old 2002-08-16, 19:45
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Mental Ray

Anyone Here Has Mental Ray? It renders much faster then the default MAX render, and it makes much more quality raytracing, it even does cool radiosity(really high quality)... It costs 5000$ though
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  #2  
Old 2002-08-16, 19:54
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I don't think anyone can afford $5000 for a 3D rendering engine here... why do you ask?
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  #3  
Old 2002-08-16, 19:55
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Exactly, fake radiosity? I tried Brazil and a few other renderers, but most of them are all pretty slow, the default MAX scanline renderer is good enough for most things.
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Link 1: kaderoboy - Deviantart (changed) (Added 18/12/02)
Link 2: Darkflame - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 3: Fireball2k - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 4: the_angry - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 5: Lightwing - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 6: StarmanDX - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 7: Blissful - Deviantart (Added 19/12/02)
Link 8: Wacko - Deviantart (Added 20/12/02)
Link 9: Keds - Colourblindboy (Added 25/12/02)
Link 10: Keds - UK Manga Studios (Added 25/12/02)
Link 11: Firephoenix - Renderosity(Added 04/01/03)
Link 12: HomelessTarget- Deviantart (Added 04/01/03)

==] Featured gallery: Razorjak [==

Also please check my defunct Arty Wotsits Thread


- If you have an online art gallery please tell me and I'll post it here ^_^

- Kadero
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  #4  
Old 2002-08-16, 20:00
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Renderosity is not needed, and is why too processor heavy to be used in animations.
I mean animations in general...not just the RMP
No, seriously, I dont believe its been used in any CGI film yet.
--
Mind you, I was shocked that 3DS Max didn't have Renderosity built in.
After all, Truespace 4 handles hybred renderosity/raytracing quite well. (turn on volumetrics too, and let your pc beg for mercy )
==
We dont need to worry about rendering yet, thats a few years off at least.
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  #5  
Old 2002-08-16, 20:12
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Actually, radiosity was used in almost all of the advanced CG films(shrek, final fantasy). But they used Maya, which is much more advanced faster and optimised for movies...
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  #6  
Old 2002-08-16, 20:18
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wacko, i asked if someone already have it... maybe we could use it... and DarkFlame, it makes things MUCH MUCH faster and MUCH MUCH more good-looking then the standart max scanline-render, it makes more realistic shadows and raytracing too... if only we had it
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  #7  
Old 2002-08-16, 20:22
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If we're all wishing to through in a fraction of $5000 it might be possible
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Link 1: kaderoboy - Deviantart (changed) (Added 18/12/02)
Link 2: Darkflame - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 3: Fireball2k - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 4: the_angry - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 5: Lightwing - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 6: StarmanDX - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 7: Blissful - Deviantart (Added 19/12/02)
Link 8: Wacko - Deviantart (Added 20/12/02)
Link 9: Keds - Colourblindboy (Added 25/12/02)
Link 10: Keds - UK Manga Studios (Added 25/12/02)
Link 11: Firephoenix - Renderosity(Added 04/01/03)
Link 12: HomelessTarget- Deviantart (Added 04/01/03)

==] Featured gallery: Razorjak [==

Also please check my defunct Arty Wotsits Thread


- If you have an online art gallery please tell me and I'll post it here ^_^

- Kadero
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  #8  
Old 2002-08-16, 20:45
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Ah and one more thingie, there is a thing called Mental Server in the Mental Ray, it makes a LAN/Internet server and anybody can connect to it and do part of the job for the render.
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  #9  
Old 2002-08-16, 21:41
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Instead of cryinbg on our too slow CPUs, it's indeed a good idea to search to optimize our render stations, and if we can find faster renderers it's excellent. No need of radiosity but if Mental ray is so performant, it'd be good to use it. I got some paragraphs on it in my 3dsmax book, I'll have a look.

I was just thinking about a way to share the render but hiddenly, with file transfers and stuff. If that mental server worked as I expect, by just sending the infos on the frame....
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  #10  
Old 2002-08-16, 22:46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xakep_INC
Actually, radiosity was used in almost all of the advanced CG films(shrek, final fantasy). But they used Maya, which is much more advanced faster and optimised for movies...
No, it wasn't.
They just embed renderosity information in the textures, its an simple and effective trick.
The normal scenes are just raytraced.
--
Maya isnt actualy spacificaly better at rendering, nor is it any more optimised for movies. (Lightware, and 3DS Max have also both been used in many films. I believe Star Trak Movies = Lightware)
Most film companys have huge render mainframes, they dont really care about render times. They just pick the best app for there task, which is often Maya with lots of customisations.

Quote:
Ah and one more thingie, there is a thing called Mental Server in the Mental Ray, it makes a LAN/Internet server and anybody can connect to it and do part of the job for the render.
Wont help, even if we all had cabel.
The file transferes will be very big when its ready to render. (I mean, the vector data allone will be big).

Quote:
wacko, i asked if someone already have it... maybe we could use it... and DarkFlame, it makes things MUCH MUCH faster and MUCH MUCH more good-looking then the standart max scanline-render, it makes more realistic shadows and raytracing too... if only we had it
Maxs does raytracing and realistic shadows too.
Sounds like your not configuring it right
(you got to use raytrace materials to raytrace on max, and soft shadows can be done with clusters of lights, or with plug ins)

The things Max Scan Line cant do is as follows:
Renderosity,
Calistics (or however its spelt),

It can do everything else (raytrace, volumetrixs ect).
There is many FREE renderers for Max, so we will not have to result to mental ray.
=====
For the moment, Scan line renderer is actualy 100x better then what we need.
We wont need a better renderer till another two years at least.
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  #11  
Old 2002-08-17, 08:31
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And you can still fake caustics and radiosity in Max, I guess a cheaper solution (if any needed) would be the one to choose from.
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Link 1: kaderoboy - Deviantart (changed) (Added 18/12/02)
Link 2: Darkflame - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 3: Fireball2k - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 4: the_angry - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 5: Lightwing - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 6: StarmanDX - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 7: Blissful - Deviantart (Added 19/12/02)
Link 8: Wacko - Deviantart (Added 20/12/02)
Link 9: Keds - Colourblindboy (Added 25/12/02)
Link 10: Keds - UK Manga Studios (Added 25/12/02)
Link 11: Firephoenix - Renderosity(Added 04/01/03)
Link 12: HomelessTarget- Deviantart (Added 04/01/03)

==] Featured gallery: Razorjak [==

Also please check my defunct Arty Wotsits Thread


- If you have an online art gallery please tell me and I'll post it here ^_^

- Kadero
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  #12  
Old 2002-08-17, 18:30
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Belive me, i'm configuring it right ( http://danny3darchive.narod.ru/Eng/G...ics/image5.jpg - watch the glass plate and cup ), i just tested Mental Ray, and it is rendering things mych FASTER and much BETTER, 3DMAX can do Raytracing, but with less quality.
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  #13  
Old 2002-08-17, 19:28
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Raytracing is raytracing, its a yes/no thing.
Any "quality" comes from other stuff.
--
btw, the link dont work.
--
Heres just some of the FREE plug in renderers for Max:
http://www.maxplugins.de/max4.php?range=Renderer

Now, we dont need to render for at least a few years, scanline is fine for now.
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  #14  
Old 2002-08-17, 19:42
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No, i don't agree..... Raytrace is NOT a yes or no.
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  #15  
Old 2002-08-18, 00:33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame

Now, we dont need to render for at least a few years, scanline is fine for now.
Xakep: Your answer
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Link 1: kaderoboy - Deviantart (changed) (Added 18/12/02)
Link 2: Darkflame - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 3: Fireball2k - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 4: the_angry - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 5: Lightwing - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 6: StarmanDX - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 7: Blissful - Deviantart (Added 19/12/02)
Link 8: Wacko - Deviantart (Added 20/12/02)
Link 9: Keds - Colourblindboy (Added 25/12/02)
Link 10: Keds - UK Manga Studios (Added 25/12/02)
Link 11: Firephoenix - Renderosity(Added 04/01/03)
Link 12: HomelessTarget- Deviantart (Added 04/01/03)

==] Featured gallery: Razorjak [==

Also please check my defunct Arty Wotsits Thread


- If you have an online art gallery please tell me and I'll post it here ^_^

- Kadero
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  #16  
Old 2002-08-18, 00:37
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The important question is about the compared render speed of 3dsmax scanline and mental ray.
If mental is really quickier, we have all to win to use it.

@&# mental ray only works under winNT.....I cant test it.
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  #17  
Old 2002-08-18, 13:30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xakep_INC
No, i don't agree..... Raytrace is NOT a yes or no.
Raytracing simply means the software traces the path of light upto the point of absumption.
Unless they have the raytracing algorithems wrong (which they havn't, angle of incident=angle of reflection, and all that) then two raytraced scenes set up EXACTLY the same way will look identical, even if rendered on different machines and software.
-
Its the other stuff that can change the quality.
What type of anti anlysis? How many samples in volumetrixs? Renderosity? density of shadowmaps (if not raytraced), Resolution of procedral textures? Depth of field samples?Number Motion blur samples? ect ect.
=====
It is silly to discuse render software now.
The scenes look 99.99999999999999% how they do because of US.
It is we that must improve, not the software.
Who knows what techology will be around when we come to render.
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Old 2002-08-18, 18:19
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaderoboy


Xakep: Your answer
My answer?? He is completely right about that (we don't need to think about rendering now).

About the Raytracing, they cannot just make ALL of the raytracing rules, try to make a transperent glass, and it will still have the same shadow like the solid one's!

Here look(shadows): http://www.mentalray.com/images/MIku...lar_out.1.jpg.


Here is about the quality of the raytracing:
http://interneteye3d.com/Reviews2001...y2/default.asp


-----------------


Quote:
It is silly to discuse render software now.
The scenes look 99.99999999999999% how they do because of US.
It is we that must improve, not the software.
Who knows what techology will be around when we come to render.
Completely Correct, No Comments...
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  #19  
Old 2002-08-18, 19:35
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Xakep: Sorry, wasn't reading the posts correctly (shame on me)

I'd really like to see those shadows, the link appears to be broken?

edit: ah ok
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Link 1: kaderoboy - Deviantart (changed) (Added 18/12/02)
Link 2: Darkflame - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 3: Fireball2k - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 4: the_angry - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 5: Lightwing - Renderosity (Added 18/12/02)
Link 6: StarmanDX - Deviantart (Added 18/12/02)
Link 7: Blissful - Deviantart (Added 19/12/02)
Link 8: Wacko - Deviantart (Added 20/12/02)
Link 9: Keds - Colourblindboy (Added 25/12/02)
Link 10: Keds - UK Manga Studios (Added 25/12/02)
Link 11: Firephoenix - Renderosity(Added 04/01/03)
Link 12: HomelessTarget- Deviantart (Added 04/01/03)

==] Featured gallery: Razorjak [==

Also please check my defunct Arty Wotsits Thread


- If you have an online art gallery please tell me and I'll post it here ^_^

- Kadero

Last edited by kaderoboy; 2002-08-18 at 19:46.
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  #20  
Old 2002-08-18, 19:44
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There is a dot in the end of the shadow link, delete it and enjoy
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  #21  
Old 2002-08-18, 19:54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
Renderosity is not needed, and is why too processor heavy to be used in animations.
I mean animations in general...not just the RMP
No, seriously, I dont believe its been used in any CGI film yet.
--
Mind you, I was shocked that 3DS Max didn't have Renderosity built in.
After all, Truespace 4 handles hybred renderosity/raytracing quite well. (turn on volumetrics too, and let your pc beg for mercy )
==
We dont need to worry about rendering yet, thats a few years off at least.
3ds 5 has a new rendering engine said to be much much faster
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  #22  
Old 2002-08-18, 20:19
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You have the money to buy that monster?
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  #23  
Old 2002-08-18, 21:15
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No, of course not...I think we better drop the subjet here ok?
--
Xakep_INC - hu? When I render max deals with semi-transparent shadows fine
Its very simple, the percentage opacity of the material determains the ammount of light let through.
There is very,very few raytracing rules.
(btw, the mental ray link dont work for me)
I think your getting mixed up with Caustics effects, which is slightly more complex and is something Max cant do.
--
btw, almost all features of Mental Ray can be simulated in Max without plug ins.
Death of field (render a distance map, then you can use that information to generate distance-based blurs).
Motion Blur (Maxs method is actualy more accruate, but it is much much slower)
Soft Shadows (theres many methods of doing soft shadows, area lights, light clusetering, render to fields and blur slightly the luminance ect ect)
--
Those two pictures of the car dont impress me either.
Shinyer dosn't mean more accruate, looks like mental ray is just interpretating the shaders differently.
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  #24  
Old 2002-08-18, 21:35
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lol, i don't say you CANT do it, it's easier with Mental Ray, by the way, here is a pic i got with FinalRender's(2500$) Global Illumination effect. It's one of the demo files. Here is a related link http://www.trinity3d.com/productinfo...alrender.shtml .
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  #25  
Old 2002-08-18, 23:18
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Nice, but with a little bit of effort, that can be simulated in Max.
--
Easy is not nesscerly better.
Mental Ray does all those things altomaticaly, which while being easier gives you less controll.
You know what one of my favorate features of a good 3D program is?
Negative lights!
The use of negative and postive lighting can be used for very interesting effects. In some case's increase realism (fake renderosity by having dark lights near rooms coners).
Or completely destory it (have a black candel, flickering darkness).
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