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View Poll Results: Should the US declare war on Iraq?
Yes. 5 15.15%
No. 26 78.79%
Who knows? or cares? 2 6.06%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 2003-03-14, 21:19
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Peace and love!!!
if i could il get bush killed
he just sucks
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  #152  
Old 2003-03-14, 21:21
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Originally posted by Cooling
Peace and love!!!
if i could il get bush killed
he just sucks
You want peace, but you want Bush to be KILLED... ok...
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  #153  
Old 2003-03-14, 22:13
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Quote:
With in the 10,000's of prisoners held in torturous condition.
Before I reply, what are you reffering to?
Prisoners taken into our custody, or people at refugee camps, under house arrest?
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  #154  
Old 2003-03-14, 22:24
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Axx ~ We all know america is doing it for the wrong reasons, no one is argueing with that.
But still, a lot of people will welcome the US in Iraq.

I personaly laughed by head of today when I heard a load of anti-war protesters who (rather bravely) went to Iraq to act as a human shield.
When they got there they were ordered by Saddams army to base themselfs around miltary instalations.
Of course, they didnt want to do this so they went home.

Quote:
What is their left as an excuse for war
Just because things are worse elsewhere does not suddenly mean the state in Iraq is acceptible. The "Legtimate" reason for war, as always, its the suffering of many people in Iraq.
It does not magicaly disapere just because other places are worse.
Besides, america wants to attact other places after Iraq too, korea being one of them.
--
oh, and when will you get it into your think skull that america dosnt care about your religeon either way.
Its not an attact on on a religeon, its an attact on a country where some people happen to be off a certain religion.
As dumb as it sounds there is a big difference there.
====
And as far as the figures go, as I said before:
AT PRESENT THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING.
The facilities to do the relivent checks and studies unforuntatly dont exist in the regions most relivent.
I have no clue what your based those figures on, but both the world health organization and amnesty international didnt have those figures.
Cancer rates have increased by 400% according to the new sciencetist (I dont know where it got its source from), but the cause cant be idenfiefed without specilist equipment in the area.
(sorry, there was a particular techique needed...but I cant remember the devices name )
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  #155  
Old 2003-03-15, 09:02
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Oh and another question to Axx:
Prisoners with David-Stars carved into them.
Where did you get this information?
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  #156  
Old 2003-03-15, 09:28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
Oh and another question to Axx:
Prisoners with David-Stars carved into them.
Where did you get this information?
I saw it on tv, a guy describing how they did it to him. surely you hear of how they treat them.

TO df: I know they dont care about my religion, that is why i dont want them to attack, and if they attack i want them to use chemichal weapons on them, ill be glad they all get gassed.
About western influence (kieron)
I want to see the law about covering hair removed, as in islam there is no forcing. But what i dont want is music, bars, dancers, nacked people. When you give a child another naked child, do you think thischild will refuse sex? No. When you give him music, he will lsn, as he dosnt understand what is wrong with it. When he hears rap for example, he would want to try out what they talk about, he will try copy them, -----> he will go astray of his religion, somthing that we cant allow to happen. Also bars. Any teenager will at one point want to try them out, he also looses his religion, he goes on the astray path. In emarate, somthing that has angered me greatly is that hores were brought into the country. Personaly i believe these hores should be killed at sight. I wont allow these disease spreading people to destroy us. I dont want it, i have the right to destroy it. When i say we live for the after life, it isnt that simple to explain what i mean. We look at human rights in a very different way. We dont look at life as somthing that will last for 60 years. We look at it more like infinite. Yet this infinite can be spent in heaven, or non infinite in hell. When we remove this we strongly believe that we save soles from hell. So when your people come and try introduce bars, sluts, music, we look at like you are putting our people in hell, so instead of freeing them, we see it as you are imprisoning them in hell, so we wont allow what you bring in here. We know that there may be young people mostly who'sminds are weak, and they fall easily into non islamic traditions. So since we both look at things so differently it is ridiculous that you try tell us whats right or wrong.

I hope you got an idea of what i mean...
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  #157  
Old 2003-03-15, 11:06
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Regarding the religion, Axx is right.
Every year that passes, the human race is loosing it's dignity,
it's pride, it's faith.
People are corrupt, greedy,malicious, superficial.

This world does not have any boundaries anymore.
There are many muslim traditions that i agree with,
I don't know if the muslims truly fulfill these traditions, I hope they do.
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  #158  
Old 2003-03-15, 11:52
Atresica Atresica is offline
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The point of human rights IS to preserve dignity

Do you think I like it that every product is being introdused by a half naked lady?
Of course I don't

Do you think I find all that music where they talk about sex cool?
Of course not

The Western world is losing much of it's dignity because of commercial interests and it bugs me, it freaks me out and I find it disgusting.

I think someone ought to bitch slap the West

No seriously, the point is that I very much agree you being against that, so am I and I can only encurage you to stop such, because it's really poisoning everything.
However, one should not just do it because of the religion, but because of the regard of human life and human dignity. Remember, rules of a Religion comes out of values and dignity, not the other way around

Don't misunderstand me though, I like a lot about the Western culture, but I hate it's egoism and commurcial values

The only thing one has to be careful about, is to get people to understand why it's wrong and not just forbid it. Because it would be stupid if you would forbid any music that has sex or crimes in it, because not all is wrong. But indeed, some music isn't quite meant for all ages, and shouldn't be advertised for all ages.

As for those American Presidents, yes, there were more whom said it, but one should look into the situation. Is nowadays thread of being overtaken by another (non democratic) country as large as it was during the Soviet Union? Not quite (and than to think that this thread was in fact, often exxegurated), so I don't think Bush is entitled to even think he's "protecting the freeworld" when half of the "freeworld" is disagreeing with him.
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  #159  
Old 2003-03-15, 14:25
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Axx ~ The point of a freeworld is people can try what they like, or reject it.
You can never truely reget anything without first having the choice.
Besides, im sure any sensible devine enity will see that choosing not to do something is a hell of a lot better then being forced not to do something.
--
oh, and if the child you keep mentioning is young enough not to know right or wrong, then it is also young enough for any God not to blame it for any wrong actions it takes.
---
And you have a very twisted view of weastern culture there....Yes, all the stuff you mentioned is here....but its in the gross minoritory, it really is.
Ive never even seen a hooker in my life!

You have the right to kill "deacase spreading hores" ?
why?
Surely they only spread decease to those people who use them, and Im sure you wouldn't mind shoting them either!

Quote:
TO df: I know they dont care about my religion, that is why i dont want them to attack, and if they attack i want them to use chemichal weapons on them, ill be glad they all get gassed.
My point was they are not attacking your reliogion, so can stop claiming that "destruction of our religion" is one of the US's reasons.
---
That is a very,very pathetic, small minded attitude their.
You have no concept of the lesser-of-evils here.
The soldiers attacking are humans, most of whom truely believe they are going to help Iraq's people.
Yes, there will be some idiot "war is cool" types, but the majority of these soldiers dont like killing or fighting, they just believe that "overall" they will make things better.

And, in the long run, they will.
Look up Amnesty International's list of crimes Iraq commits against its own people every day.
The very idea that having a few Macdonld's up the road is worse then this is madness.

However, sometimes short-term harm can be worse then long-term gain.
Its very hard to compare this stuff, we really need human-rights inspectors in Irraq.
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  #160  
Old 2003-03-16, 10:02
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to anakin:- your the coolest israelie i ever met!!!!

to atresica:- No i believe religion is the sole controller of my life. That is where i come different. I think if religion controlled the life of my society, thaqt corruption would not exist, crime would be at lowest possible levels, dignity will be preserved. I believe that if we allow other things to be an altermatum to our religion, that we may gaint those attributes, crime, and loss of dignity. But in the end the final choice remains with that one person

To df:- If that is the "free world" then i can try kill? i can try rape? maybe these arnt on the list, but you will be outraged if they were allowed? Yes im sure you would. So look at it like this. we are outraged by non married people having sex, just are you when one rapes the other. Also the same for many other form of what i consider western corruption. My point. The "free world" of yours seems to have exception. You dont have the freedom to kill or rape, because you find those unacceptable. The "free world" we have considers alcholism, nudity unacceptable, so we ban them. In the western world its just that you find different things unacceptable and acceptable than the muslim world. So you cannot force your ideals upon us.

About the young boy/girl. They are too young to understand what is wrong and right, but if he aquires somthing as acceptable, he wont find it unacceptable even when he grows older. Islamicaly there is no sin for a non pubic person. Also the sin of a teenager differs than that of a 40 year old.

Funny, i have seen a hooker in dubai, and you havnt seen one in your life...

Il explain the religion destruction bit later
TO BE CONTINUED...
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  #161  
Old 2003-03-16, 12:53
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Well, the thing is, I never saw a hooker before either (at least, not in real life )

Also, "Free world" doesn't mean you're free to do what you want, it's that you are free to believe what you want and the freedom to express your agreement or disagreement.
I considder those things very valuable.
To say Free World means a moralistic corrupted world wouldn't make sense. Of course, our multinationals are trying to give you another idea -_-

What my point is, Religion ALWAYS was constructed from the ethics and morals of the creator. I'm not saying it's wrong, in that time, those ideas were truly revolutionary. The point is though, I'm very much against the principe of "If you don't follow a religion, you don't have ethics" because it's just not right (most self-proclaiming religious people have done worse crimes than non-religious people).
I don't know if a religion that would controling a society would be good. The problem is that, I'm very much afraid for religious fanatics and to lose the posibility to decide my own course of life.
If true Islamic or Christian or what ever values were being put in a society, it might work, but one should always be able to accept a different path, not just because from moral views, but also because it would be rediculous to ban something that causes no harm.

I don't like things from the Western culture, but I certainly also don't like things from the Middle East culture. Every culture has it's ups and downs, with a collision of these cultures, they can change, and hopefully they'll only take the best aspects of each other.
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  #162  
Old 2003-03-16, 13:24
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Yes, I've seen a hooker. (Nasty site)

Yes, every religion has its pros and cons.
I have a lot of respect for Islam's convservatism, but I hate it's outright chauvinism.
And I strongly believe that the only way we can ever get over ourselves is to let religions learn from one another,
maybe that way we can reach a state that has always been considered utopic.
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  #163  
Old 2003-03-16, 17:41
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Quote:
If that is the "free world" then i can try kill? i can try rape? maybe these arnt on the list, but you will be outraged if they were allowed? Yes im sure you would
Thats not a fair comparison.
My point was, if everyone was tired up, unable to move, would you then congradulate them on how no crimes where commited?

We can choose not to go killing people, we can chose not to go into strip joints, we can choose not to do any of the things you consider bad in our culture.
Its our choice.
And, if we go into a strip joint, or drink excessly, and go stright to hell, it was our fault...out stupid choice.

However, the people in Iraq CANT choose, they get arrested at near-random, they can be exceled, they cant leave unless they are rich, and a thousands other crimes commited against them that they have no choice over.

Even in the ridcolius scenoro of 100s of strip joints, pubs ect following the army into Iraq, that you seem to be implying, EVEN in that scenoro, the people will be free to ignore western culture.
I dont know about you, but personaly, I dont think those things would survive more then a few weeks in Iraq.
--
And finaly, I think its dangerous basing laws on religion, because while the intention is always good, there is also always some screwed-up miss-interpretation that goes with it.
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  #164  
Old 2003-03-17, 10:14
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i think you twisted what i said around, i said, your laws ban killing, because it is unacceptsble, our laws ban sex out of marriage, because it is unacceptable. Im talking about my religion, NOT IRAQ?! Islamic law isnt applied in iraq, saddam, if i may remind you, was anti islamic when he came to power, he pretends to believe, and only god knows what in his heart ... err emm, whereever it is (considering he dosnt have a heart)
atresica:_ in islam, we dont force religion upon people, if there are non muslim comunties, then we may not force our law upon them
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  #165  
Old 2003-03-17, 12:19
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Interesting is that Tariq Aziz is Christian..
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  #166  
Old 2003-03-17, 14:03
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axx
i think you twisted what i said around, i said, your laws ban killing, because it is unacceptsble, our laws ban sex out of marriage, because it is unacceptable. Im talking about my religion, NOT IRAQ?! Islamic law isnt applied in iraq, saddam, if i may remind you, was anti islamic when he came to power, he pretends to believe, and only god knows what in his heart ... err emm, whereever it is (considering he dosnt have a heart)
atresica:_ in islam, we dont force religion upon people, if there are non muslim comunties, then we may not force our law upon them
Well, thats fair enough, but I was always talking in the context of Iraq.
If your talking about something else,then sure, I agree, of course everyone has different views of right and wrong.
Id stick up for that view anytime, and, in fact, it would be dangerous if everyone had the same laws and rules.

My point was purely in Iraqs context, that is, that standing a chance of going to hell though choice is the lesser evil then been forced to live in hell by the govement.
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  #167  
Old 2003-03-17, 21:31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axx
atresica:_ in islam, we dont force religion upon people, if there are non muslim comunties, then we may not force our law upon them
I wished some selfproclaiming muslims remembered that

well, as long there is a freedom of choice, after all, god would have given it to us aswell, so why should we not allow it at others
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  #168  
Old 2003-03-18, 02:16
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George Bush's Presidential Adress:

"Blah blah blah, blah blah blah...America...blah blah blah, fuf fuf fuf...Iraq...blah blah blah, muah muah muah...War...blah blah blah...Terrorism..."


American citizens:

"Lets make fun of the French for not joining the war against Iraq"


The French:

"The day we fight with the US is the day you will find Truffles in Iraq."


This is like a circus show up here. Do the americans know that the entire world is laughing at them?
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  #169  
Old 2003-03-18, 08:26
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Did you know, that untill a few days after sep.11th 2001,
80% of america's citizens didn't know where afghanistan is?
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  #170  
Old 2003-03-18, 11:30
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saddam hussien is evil, by far one of the most evil dictators of the century (since he lived into 2000's he might well become this centuries most notorious). His laws dosnt represent islam, and vice versa. I put my self behind islam, just as the majority of muslims. Now id like to remind you that agreements from long ago with the british governmet forces upon everal muslims countries to have non religoius governments, non secular. Turkey, egypt, tunisia, and a few others. The british still have the sort of imperialism of long ago. What right do they have on canada and australia, and several other countries world wide. Ah well, its ther choice, but seriouly, i look at mi5 as a dangerous organization more focused on hurting britain rather helping it. I believe diana, for example, was assasinated. I dont believe the car crash was accidental. Diana was pregnant by an arab/muslim, and she was from the royal family. I once watched somthing about the father of dody fayid. I also think mi5 is so heavily focused on protecting the queen and her interests in many ways. It isnt exactly the mi5, its also a number of organisations. I just wish i could remeber the ddetails i heard the other day which left me outraged.

French have MASSIVE BACKING/LIKING here! All my friends, people love the french, germans. Mainly the french. I swear ive never seen so much pro frenchisim here?! its crazy. Arabs are demanding (as well as me) that we have french products substitute american products, french resturants taking the place of american ones, french expertise replace american one's. Ah well, all i demand from the french is lba3:P

Atresica, out of all the religions, im sure muslims know there religion, and follow it the best. But i think some people, the "jahileen" are exremist but know not islam.

Lol @ anakin figure ah well, they arnt that bright.
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  #171  
Old 2003-03-18, 11:45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
Did you know, that untill a few days after sep.11th 2001,
80% of america's citizens didn't know where afghanistan is?
That dosnt supprise me a bit.
[/someone dig up that "americans view of the world" picture]
---
Actualy, I think the French were just as bad as the americans.
That refused all of Americans preposibles BEFORE they looked at them.
Im sorry, but thats inexcuseable in my view.
The govement was just protecting its interests (that is, it already has a share in Iraqs oil, it makes weapons for both sides, AND it stays popular with the public by pretending its against war....clever or them hu?)
====
Axx ~
Quote:
What right do they have on canada and australia, and several other countries world wide.
What right does any govement have over any country?
That argument is very deep, and is best to avoid thinking about.

Quote:
i look at mi5 as a dangerous organization more focused on hurting britain rather helping it. I believe diana, for example, was assasinated. I dont believe the car crash was accidental. Diana was pregnant by an arab/muslim, and she was from the royal family. I once watched somthing about the father of dody fayid.
Gezzz...and I thought I had crazy thoeorys.
Have you got any evidence?

Her death wasnt fully an accident, some press was speeding just behind them to try to get some new pictures for whatever cheap paper would buy them.
Im not supprised they crashed, I hate the stinking newspapers, they do that sort of thing all the time.
oh, but as soon as she died the press suddenly started likeing her

Mi5 dosnt have any direct connection to the queen, they organise her protection occansionaly, but that is done ver a govement department.
I cant picture in charge of the orangansation myself, shes just a figure head.

And a dam good one, I may add.
People against the royals here dont seem to realise as soon as you lose a queen, you gain a president
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  #172  
Old 2003-03-18, 15:34
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axx
Atresica, out of all the religions, im sure muslims know there religion, and follow it the best. But i think some people, the "jahileen" are exremist but know not islam.
I don't know enough about that to back that up

though if I think about Hinduists and Budists... ah well, you get what I mean.

nice conspiracy theory you got there

Turkey has that stuff not because of the British but because of Attaturk
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Concentration camps, trait of the nazis, and how Americans are jelous Axx Off topic 39 2004-12-11 10:50
Deus Ex 2: Invisible War Double-J Off topic 39 2004-06-09 16:27
Torture, think youve read about it? ***Warning Gross Pictures*** Axx Off topic 137 2004-05-21 00:29


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