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  #126  
Old 2008-06-14, 21:32
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He asked where the Universe came from, and what was before the big bang, not where did the god hypothesis came from.
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  #127  
Old 2008-06-14, 21:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
He asked where the Universe came from, and what was before the big bang, not where did the god hypothesis came from.

I will assume you read the first line of what I showed you, care to read it?


Where the Universe come from?

If you believe in Creation you have the answer.

What was before the Big Bang?
Pure nothingness, time only starts when matter comes into existence, which would require divine intervention...

Not where did the God hypothesis came from.
I've never explained that...












Think of how our universe started like this:
There was once an open field, then one day, a builder built a house. The house is our universe, it never existed until the builder made it.

There you have it in layman terms.
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  #128  
Old 2008-06-15, 03:01
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Jasiek Jasiek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
Think of how our universe started like this:
There was once an open field, then one day, a builder built a house. The house is our universe, it never existed until the builder made it.

There you have it in layman terms.
Riiight, please ditch that condescending, preaching tone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
Where did God come from?
Well, you certainly "tried" to explain it...


Why do you actually think the universe needs a builder? Why does it even need a beginning? Our way of thinking about time is but one of many, we treat it like a straight line, whereas the greeks for instance believed it is circular. The Hindus also believe in a cycle of things and seeing how much higher they are on a spiritual level, I would bet more on their views then anyone elses... (at least they didn't start wars over it...)

The fascinating thing is, that you believe in an architect sort of a god, that planted every small tree and did every tiny, whiny thing himself. And to tell you the truth, the official Vatican doctrine, follows Aristotle and his idea of a "prime mover", a spark and a set of laws. Also, the ideas of Plotinus that really influenced the Church's founding fathers are also cool, becouse there god "thoughts" emanate reality - so it's kind of like particle physics, first there is energy and chaos, and on a slightly more macro scale there is mass and order.

Also it astounds me even more that so many people believe in a personal devil - a personal evil, when the official doctrine is, after st. Augustine that Evil is only lack of good, and there is no "ghost of evil deeds" and that "evil" is a direct implication of human freedom ("non posse non peccare" - I cannot not sin). That's just a sidenote though, my point however is this, that people try to "defend" the creation story, while they know nothing about it, and the philosophical implications it caused in debates over the centuries, and what conclusions where finally reached.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2008-06-15 at 03:08.
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  #129  
Old 2008-06-15, 23:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
There was once an open field, then one day, a builder built a house. The house is our universe, it never existed until the builder made it.
You blew my mind.......
also i found out what god looks like.




































































































































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  #130  
Old 2008-06-15, 23:42
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly
There was once an open field, then one day, a builder built a house. The house is our universe, it never existed until the builder made it.
I agree it's possible as a metaphor, but all the connotation are wrong.
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  #131  
Old 2008-06-16, 00:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post

Think of how our universe started like this:
There was once an open field, then one day, a builder built a house. The house is our universe, it never existed until the builder made it.

There you have it in layman terms.
That's some hardcore philosphical shit right there.
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  #132  
Old 2008-06-16, 00:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin View Post
That's some hardcore philosphical shit right there.
damn straight nigga.
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  #133  
Old 2008-06-16, 01:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
Pure nothingness, time only starts when matter comes into existence, which would require divine intervention...
Why would it require divine intervention? Where did the devine intervention come from? Where did what created the devine intervention come from? Where did what created the devine intervention's creator come from?
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  #134  
Old 2008-06-16, 01:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echomote View Post
Why would it require divine intervention? Where did the devine intervention come from? Where did what created the devine intervention come from? Where did what created the devine intervention's creator come from?
WELL OBVIOUSLY GOD CREATED THE CREATOR WHO CREATED HIM WITH DEVINE INTERVENTION.
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  #135  
Old 2008-06-16, 01:43
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That's like saying the Big Bang was the devine intervention which caused the Big Bang. Which could be correct, as in theory could be an infinite loop with no start, where once the expanding planets all stop moving away (run out of energy) are all pulled back in by Gravity making all the planets and crap collide making a big bang causing planets to be created and ever expanding outwards from the explosion.
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  #136  
Old 2008-06-16, 01:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echomote View Post
Why would it require divine intervention? Where did the devine intervention come from? Where did what created the devine intervention come from? Where did what created the devine intervention's creator come from?

Why the hell do people ignore my previous posts?

Where did God come from?
We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.
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  #137  
Old 2008-06-16, 02:24
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it doesnt answer shit ok.
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  #138  
Old 2008-06-16, 02:25
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Originally Posted by Mouserz View Post
it doesnt answer shit ok.
Well, I don't think Echomote's name is Shit.
Nor did he ask a question regarding shit.
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  #139  
Old 2008-06-16, 02:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
Well, I don't think Echomote's name is Shit.
Nor did he ask a question regarding shit.
shit, origin of god, whatever.



look, the only reason im calling your ideology shit is because you try to push it on people.
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  #140  
Old 2008-06-16, 02:42
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Quote:
Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter.
So God doesn't exist, right? The bible says we were created in God's image, but if God doesn't exist but he does, he has no image to base us from. If what you're saying is possible, how can you say something without divine intervention is impossible? If this matterless God can exist, why can't matter? Why can't matter have been there all along?
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  #141  
Old 2008-06-16, 03:07
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this thread is missing retarded conspiracy theories.
A DIFFERENT DIMENSION WHICH ALREADY HAD A GALAXY CREATED THIS DIMENSION WE LIVE IN, BUT IN THE FUCKTURE WE WILL CREATE THAT DIMENSION THAT CREATED US AISSTATSA TIME PARATDOCXT THE GOVERMENT KILLED JEFK
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  #142  
Old 2008-06-16, 07:55
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Mousez0rz - there's nothing wrong in having an argument. What you call pushing stuff on people is a basic human behavior. As long as both sides are willing to listen I don't care if he tries to convince me the Earth is flat and that talking pigs are real.
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  #143  
Old 2008-06-16, 08:13
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his only god damned arguments are bible verses.
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  #144  
Old 2008-06-16, 08:51
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True, but still.
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  #145  
Old 2008-06-16, 11:49
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Quote:
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True, but still.
no. no still.
you cant use the subject being debated about as an argument.
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  #146  
Old 2008-06-16, 12:14
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He can, and then I can inform him why his argument doesn't hold.
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  #147  
Old 2008-06-16, 14:37
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And he won't listen and ignore your every post, patronising you, thinking "you don't understand"...
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  #148  
Old 2008-06-16, 15:40
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Originally Posted by Mouserz View Post
look, the only reason im calling your ideology shit is because you try to push it on people.


Well, I could say exactly the same to you.


I am not forcing my opinion on you, or any other member, I am merely giving you information, and letting you choose what you think, for Europe being the continent with the most open thinkers, you aren't keeping to the standard.(also, all you're doing is flaming me for my beliefs, and not contributed whatsoever to the debate)



Dan: Since God is outside the universe, doesn't mean He doesn't exist.
Think about infinity, you can't begin to imagine what it must be like, we have a name for it yes, but our brains just can't cope to think what it is like.

It's the same with where time has no meaning, we can only imagine time advancing forward, though we will never be able imagine where time doesn't really work the way it does.(Forgive me, I'm struggling to put this into words)




Firstly, I'm not the one using Bible verses, it's rather the information that is, personally, I believe that the Bible is soon becoming the new God, people are rather focusing on the Bible more than God, "All the answers are in the Bible", "Believe in the Bible", etc. etc., we are beginning to focus on the Bible more than God. Another example, their is a Bible lesson class at school(which I do not go to), funny, they don't get taught about God, but rather a bunch of verses from the Bible, the lesson is even called Bible! We're idolizing the Bible.


So, umm, yeah, proceed.
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  #149  
Old 2008-06-16, 16:43
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See Mouserz? I told you, ignoring...
No mate, you're not "giving us information", information is facts.
What we don't like is that firstly you're not listening, or even trying to understand (or even reply for the most) our arguments. Secondly, your tone suggests that you know better (preaching). And Thirdly your own beliefs are inconsistent, and it is evident that you haven't done any proper studies into the topics you're defending.

No one is flaming you for your faith, but for your blind faith, and that you are uneducated in the fields you wish to criticize.

Anyway, how do you suppose someone makes a lesson about god? By definition god is unknowable, there can't be any lessons on god. Bible studies looks like a much better idea, that way they're impartial, the thing you would like is indoctrination.
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  #150  
Old 2008-06-16, 18:40
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i like how he said that hes not trying to push his opinions yet he created this thread and said that evolution is impossible, blasphemous and it had no proof at all because his pastor didn't know anything about it.
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