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  #1  
Old 2010-03-23, 15:07
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Kobold Kobold is offline
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Nintendo Thread (Rainbow Road Interpretive Dance!)

Might as well start a new thread as all our previous "upcoming games" and "Wii" threads are getting quite outdated and don't seem to fit here.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2010/100323e.pdf
Quote:
Nintendo Co., Ltd. (Minami-ward of Kyoto-city, President Satoru Iwata) will launch "Nintendo 3DS"(temp) during the fiscal year ending March 2011, on which games can be enjoyed with 3D effects without the need for any special glasses.

"Nintendo 3DS"(temp) is going to be the new portable game machine to succeed "Nintendo DS series", whose cumulative consolidated sales from Nintendo amounted to 125million units as of the end of December 2009, and will include backward compatibility so that the software for Nintendo DS series, including the ones for Nintendo DSi, can also be enjoyed.

We are planning to announce additional details at E3 show, which is scheduled to be held from June 15, 2010 at Los Angeles in the U.S.
Wow. I am kinda ... highly suspicious about 3D technology there. I always hated the current 3D technologies as they are a pain for me to view, holding the 3D glasses over my regular glasses.

A release is excepted in Japan before the end of March 2011.

In case you have been hiding behind a PC, the Nintendo DS one of the better consoles of the current generation and among other titles home to Soul Bubbles and Color Cross by the LBA team.

Last edited by Kobold; 2010-03-23 at 21:04.
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  #2  
Old 2010-03-23, 16:01
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Either they mean Headtracking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5QSclrIdlE ) or steroscopic 3d ver the parallax barrier technique (Which I actually predicted for the the first DS, I was a little out...)

I'm hoping headtracking as standard. I wouldnt mind parallax barrier though, as long as the slits are really fine, or it has dual-mode. (like some 3d screens made by sharp support)
Also, you can actually have steroscopic 3d on a normal ds without glass's. Its very crude, black and white, but it does work;
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=8549
(notice the date and Tepples prediction too!)

Anyway, I still think its too early for a new DS. Theres 4 more Layton games, a Ghibli game, and GoldenSun3 at the very least coming out.
--
Incidentaly, I think there should just be a standard Nintendo thread brought back. Theres been quite a lot of random news recently. (No hub in MarioGalaxy2 )
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  #3  
Old 2010-03-23, 16:06
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I also think it's too early.
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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Incidentaly, I think there should just be a standard Nintendo thread brought back. Theres been quite a lot of random news recently. (No hub in MarioGalaxy2 )
Oh yeah, I hate that decision, too.
Maybe just rename this to "Nintendo thread" and live with it.
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  #4  
Old 2010-03-23, 16:55
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Bollocks.
3D is utterly useless, a waste of resources.
They're trying to push it everywhere like it's the new sliced bread.
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Old 2010-03-23, 16:56
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So you wouldn't mind losing an eye?

3D helps us judge depth, both stereoscopicness and head tracking would vastly enhance that. This would make judgeing jumps in FPS games a lot easier, for one example.
Even subtle camera repositioning can have a 3d effect;


Not to mention its also more natural to move our heads slightly to get a better look at something, rather then use our hands to reposition an in-game camera.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2010-03-23 at 17:03.
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  #6  
Old 2010-03-23, 17:03
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The 3DS will have
- an analogue stick
- a built-in rumble feature
- a tilt sensor
- screens no bigger than 4 inches.
Of course as it is DSi-compatible, it will also have
- a touch screen
- two cameras
- a web browser
and all that fun stuff.

It is downwards compatible with DS games, but I think they're going for one giant screen with no visible gap between the two halfs.

Oh and they say GameCube graphic quality.

Last edited by Kobold; 2010-03-23 at 17:13.
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  #7  
Old 2010-03-23, 17:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
So you wouldn't mind losing an eye?

3D helps us judge depth, both stereoscopy and head tracking would vastly enhance that. This would make judging jumps in FPS games a lot easier, for one example.

Not to mention its also more natural to move our heads slightly to get a better look at something, rather then use our hands to reposition an in-game camera.
1.) When was the last time you played an FPP game on the DS?
2.) It's a game, not real life, you don't need to judge jumps, it's not even a real problem.
3.) You have to be blind, to not see that the technology is being pushed because of some sort of an agenda (to make you buy useless hardware to use it, to inhibit sharing by making movies again an experience you can only have in a cinema etc.), and not because it can have positive sides.
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  #8  
Old 2010-03-23, 18:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
1.) When was the last time you played an FPP game on the DS?
True. The DS has a huge library of games, but it does lack First-Person and Fighting games.
Quote:
3.) You have to be blind, to not see that the technology is being pushed because of some sort of an agenda (to make you buy useless hardware to use it, to inhibit sharing by making movies again an experience you can only have in a cinema etc.), and not because it can have positive sides.
If it was some accessory for the Wii, I'd instantly agree. But this is a handheld console that comes with many other uses.
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  #9  
Old 2010-03-23, 18:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
3.) You have to be blind, to not see that the technology is being pushed because of some sort of an agenda (to make you buy useless hardware to use it, to inhibit sharing by making movies again an experience you can only have in a cinema etc.), and not because it can have positive sides.
A lot of people have commented that to me lately too.

My opinion is, yes you may be right, but hell, it is fun anyway. I do appreciate something new in our good ol' flat, boring screens. 3D might totally enhance FPS games, as already mentioned. Not because you can judge a jump's distance, but, hell, you're each time more immersed into it. And not only FPS... can you imagine LBA 3 with it, whereas if you throw the magicball at yourself (aiming towards you, the player) you actually see the ball coming to you and splashing right in your eyes?

I'm not sure what's the potential of 3D but it opens some new possibilities, and it's exciting, as long as you can turn it off at any time and won't depend on it to be able to play.
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  #10  
Old 2010-03-23, 18:32
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Uhm, I can't see how anyone can be against it. 3D is better than 2D, period. ...unless you also tell me Black & White is better than color. Or that mores code transmitter is better than telephone.
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  #11  
Old 2010-03-23, 20:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
1.) When was the last time you played an FPP game on the DS?
Doesn't have does not mean shouldn't have.
Same goes for Wii.

Quote:
2.) It's a game, not real life, you don't need to judge jumps, it's not even a real problem.
Theres LOTS of FP games where you have to judge your jumping.
It doesn't mater so much in 3rd person because you can see your character and shadows, thus giving you more information to jump.
But platforming in first person you have far less information, making jumping far more annoying and unfair to the player.
If it doesn't bother you, that great. But Ive seen lots of negative comments about FPS jumping puzzles, or irritating bits in FPS games were jumping is a problem. Good FPS games tend to avoid it completely.

Its not unique to FPS games though, I recently had awfull jumping in The Simpsons Game. The cell shaded graphics might have looked pretty nice, but it made some of the platforming bloody hard because it was frequently hard to judge distance.(terrible controls didnt help either)


Quote:
3.) You have to be blind, to not see that the technology is being pushed because of some sort of an agenda (to make you buy useless hardware to use it, to inhibit sharing by making movies again an experience you can only have in a cinema etc.), and not because it can have positive sides.
Yes it is. Exactly like HD was, or Colour TV's or Stero sound.
Its not an "agenda" so much simply looking for something more to sale us.

As it happens I dont like the shutter-glass's techique that Sony and others are pushing as if its new. But that doesn't mean 3d is bad, just some methods are needlessly expensive, old, and flawed.

I see no reason why 3D on a handheld is anything other then a good thing in principle. Of course, this implementation might have drawbacks.
But what other company's are doing, and what cinema does has no relation on Nintendo or if this tech works well for games.
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  #12  
Old 2010-03-23, 20:39
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3D has nothing to do with HD or colour TV or any sort of advancement in entertainment in my eyes. If you compare it to anything then blueray would be the closest - a useless gimmick designed to get that cash flowing (using new tech to prolong the life of an obsolete idea - MPEG2 in the case of blueray). It's an old idea that's been here, has passed and should've stayed in the past. They're digging it out now to try and get back to the profit levels they had before file sharing. I can certainly see it as a good thing for robot controls and probes and in medical robots even surveilance cameras but not in entertainment.

We live in this age of reality tv where "immersion" and "the experience" based solely on the visuals is a good thing. We end up with movies that have a plot not that more complicated then a plot of a theme park ride! But hey, it's "immersive"! Look! It's shiny!

I tried both Imax and Dolby movies in 3D and they're horrible and detract you from the experience not to mention that with the Dolby 3D the colours are bland. If they're doing the same to games then I hope it won't catch on.

Negative comments about jumping puzzles in games... What kind of whimpery is that? Since when are FPP games for toddlers? No one in my generation has ever had or has that problem! It's since the advent of the "casual gamer" everything has gone to shit gameplay-wise, games are getting dumbed down more and more.


There is a great lecture on Ted from this girl that does game design. We should be finding ways to utilize the gamer in the real world, not immerse the gamer even deeper into fantasy!
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2010-03-23 at 20:46.
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  #13  
Old 2010-03-23, 20:43
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If you think 3D is just a gimmick then maybe you don't have depth perception...
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  #14  
Old 2010-03-23, 20:51
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You're going to run around the cinema? Or in front of your tv to see what's behind a bush?

In a game head tracking might be good as a new set of controls (for some clever workaround to leaning for instance), but there's no reason to dabble in the useless 3D tech of the movie industry.
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Old 2010-03-23, 20:54
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Why not?!?! I know you explained it already... but I didn't get it.
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  #16  
Old 2010-03-23, 21:04
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Can somebody change the title of this thread to something like "Nintendo Thread"?
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Old 2010-03-24, 15:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
Can somebody change the title of this thread to something like "Nintendo Thread"?
More like "3D... just a hype or not?".
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Old 2010-03-24, 16:47
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[QUOTE=Jasiek;394894]3D has nothing to do with HD or colour TV or any sort of advancement in entertainment in my eyes.[quote]

Why?
Its all making the output closer to matching our sense's input.

Quote:
Negative comments about jumping puzzles in games... What kind of whimpery is that? Since when are FPP games for toddlers? No one in my generation has ever had or has that problem! It's since the advent of the "casual gamer" everything has gone to shit gameplay-wise, games are getting dumbed down more and more.
Difficulty should come from the scenario's, the intelligence of the enemy's, and the smartness of the puzzles.
NOT by limiting the players perception to make stuff harder.

In real life we can judge distances, so why shouldn't we in games?

If games are only hard or challenging for frustrating reasons, they arnt good games at all.


Quote:
There is a great lecture on Ted from this girl that does game design. We should be finding ways to utilize the gamer in the real world, not immerse the gamer even deeper into fantasy!
So, Augmented Reality then. Which probably needs 3D and HMD's even moreso then screens do.
Flat graphics in real life will look really odd.

Quote:
It's an old idea that's been here, has passed and should've stayed in the past. They're digging it out now to try and get back to the profit levels they had before file sharing.
For the record, theres still no evidence file sharing has had a negative impact on the film industry.
Its far more likely just that films have got more expensive to make. (partly due to effects, but also partly so actors just getting paid stupid amounts).

It also doesn't help Hollywood only goes for million budget blockbusters. Big spending for big returns. (they hope).. Profits can be made by making cheaper films with less audiences, but they rarely do it.
(The game industry has the exact same problem).

Quote:
We live in this age of reality tv where "immersion" and "the experience" based solely on the visuals is a good thing. We end up with movies that have a plot not that more complicated then a plot of a theme park ride! But hey, it's "immersive"! Look! It's shiny!
Thats been going on since Star Wars.
Restricting an artists palette is not the way to make better films.
3D currently is in the stage colour was at first. Exaggerated oversaturated stuff.
When it becomes the norm, 3D will no longer be a gimmick by definition. Films might be able to get away with "In 3D!" now. But it wont last long. When everyone is doing it, it wont be a selling point or an excuse.


Quote:
You're going to run around the cinema? Or in front of your tv to see what's behind a bush?
It only takes really subtle movements for head-tracking to work.

Quote:
but there's no reason to dabble in the useless 3D tech of the movie industry.
They arnt, they are using their own tech.

That said, Polarised glass's for Imax films worked great for me. Aliens Of the Deep (actualy filmed in 3D) was just amazing.
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  #19  
Old 2010-03-24, 16:57
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I don't know. I don't like holding a pair of paper glasses in front of my real glasses the entire time. It only feels like it's getting in the way of a proper vision for me.
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Old 2010-03-24, 17:32
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I do find it kind of annoying to wear the 3D glasses, I know what you mean Kobold about feeling like your vision is limited, but they do work pretty well for what they're trying to do. It's still a new thing though, I hope it will improve a lot. As it stands I probably rather watch a movie in 2 dimensions.
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Old 2010-03-24, 18:03
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So, Augmented Reality then. Which probably needs 3D and HMD's even moreso then screens do.
Flat graphics in real life will look really odd.
That's not it. The lecture is on how to utilize the gamers' creativity, openness to cooperation etc. in the real world and real-life problems, not about brining games into real life.

And Mind you, if you go into Imax, wherever you sit in the cinema you're seeing the same false "3D" image - moving sideways doesn't change the perspective (you just can't see what's not there!). If they do head tracking, it might be cool, but the whole fake 3D is old and it doesn't really do anything.

That's why it's a gimmick, it's not new, it doesn't do anything, it's annoying the viewer with the glasses.
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Old 2010-03-24, 18:38
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A movie in real-time 3D would be incredible. Like a saved Maya animation project where the viewer can move and look around freely at the scene at any given time during the movie. It would make an amazing re-watch value. (but for it to be good the movie makers will have to make a very live world in every scene, not easy)

But even fake 3D is better than no 3D at all. Movies are an illusion by their definition. There aren't really people on the screen, just photons that you perceive as people. Why not expend the illusion further and make it look like there are 3D people behind/in front the screen?

At least I know I enjoy it, and many other people enjoy it too. You cant really argue with that.
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Old 2010-03-24, 19:58
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Looks fun, but I agree with Jasiek, I don't see what kind of improvement it would bring to games. Games have a 3D effect for quite a long time now, according to the video, this 3D effect is nothing more than repositionning the camera without buttons. Still, it does look nice, but I don't see what kind of games could be made.
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Old 2010-03-24, 20:14
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The good thing about a Nintendo DS system, and very likely this 3DS as well is that games don't need to take advantage of the new technology. There are plenty of DS games which never make use of the touch screen or the dual screen mechanic and are just fine. I even have a DS game that is played with an extremely old-school Paddle controller (like they existed for Pong) that plugs into the GBA slot.

I can see a majority of games for this system not using 3D and still selling like crazy.
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Old 2010-03-24, 22:42
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That's fun, what's this controller-game's name ?

I agree with you, many great games which don't use the touchscreen, but if you do a game for a consol with a screen displaying 3D without using it, then what's the 3D for ? (except costing more money)
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