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  #101  
Old 2003-02-17, 19:51
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Firephoenix Firephoenix is offline
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DJ - porn medias effects arent that visible on people that have a rather balanced life, it's mostly when combined with other life factors that it can lead to bullshits. Tell yourself that if you're an equilibrated guy, that's not the case of everyone.

DF - tastes arent all written in genes, developpment plays a big role in tastes and behaviours. You cant say pornos or gore movies havent direct effects on personnalities, I got many speech of people that had been very hurted by such medias (especially during the youth of course, that's during the developpment that they are mostly effective on the psychism), got a twisted view of world and sexuality, and acted badly, had perversious behaviour then.
Violent games (really violent I say, style sanitarium or Doom 3, of course games like CS havent any more effect on personnality than basic action scenes of movies) or movies (hannibal, mechanical orange) can really increase the mental trouble of individuals, even if they have already a good part oof stress and violence in themselves, and when I see that 3 guys have killed an old man after having just watched Doberman, I think they wouldnt have gone from thought to act without that booster, you cant deny the impact of sensations on the character.

There are many things people do that arent instincts, basic instinct leads men toward women, they surelly havent in the genes the orgies 12 mn and women are able to do together, mixed upo with green plants and animals. And porn isnt the cause of raps, just a factor that can only increase weird views of sexualities (some people finally reallly believe every women are always willing to have sex, even if they say no) and an "object" perception of women.

I agree that governmennts love to focuse on wrong targets, especially concerning the violence of games that'd be the main cause of the urban violence, it's quite ridiculous wheen you see them attacking Counter Strike or Quake 3 instead of thinking to joblessness, poverty, lack of parental structures and education, ect...but on the other hand I dislike when people think humans above bad influences, mental manipulation can go very far with not many means.
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  #102  
Old 2003-02-17, 22:01
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame


Unforuntatly, neither you, or the US govement, or that society against video games, seems to take notice.
They prefer to stick with these simplistic ideas.
After all, its easy for a govement to ban a game, or film.

I vaguely remember Joe Lieberman, VP candidate 2000, who is very big on censorship, say something like this about LoZ: Majora's Mask, and why he wanted to ban it:

"There are serious cases of nudity, as well as the ability for the player to roll into a male gonad and attack others."

I guess a goron=gonad!!!



WOW, MY TESTICLES ARE ROCK CREATURES!!!
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  #103  
Old 2003-02-17, 22:54
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YOU HAVE TALKING TESTICLES?!
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  #104  
Old 2003-02-17, 23:00
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I dunno if they talk, but whenever I kiss a girl, they seem to tingle...
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  #105  
Old 2003-02-17, 23:04
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Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J


Porn can be good actually, kinda like a sex-advice tape.
Here is a good example on what I just said.^^ Thanks for helping me, American.
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  #106  
Old 2003-02-18, 00:07
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Uh-oh...I've helped the enemy...


I really think we need the </sarcasm> tag, since the smiley really isn't working...


Porn can be used as sex help/advice...I see no real evil if that is it's design, for a married couple, if they wanna buy a pleasure manual or something...
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  #107  
Old 2003-02-18, 15:44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J
Uh-oh...I've helped the enemy...
If you're even a cm to the right of centre, Gustav's your arch nemesis.

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  #108  
Old 2003-02-18, 19:12
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DJ - I know several cases of couples that have separated precisely because the husband couldnt stop watching porns, worst than a drug.

Nope really imo there is no need at all of "porn" medias to get ideas, imagination and serious books (not designed simply to excite the people) like KamaSutra or stuff are widely enough for couples that need ideas, no need to witness other people having sex, especially when it's not a couple that acts there but well a bunch of mads all mixed up.
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  #109  
Old 2003-02-18, 19:17
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Sex addiction has nothing to do with porn. Just look at Bill Clinton, who now is in therapy for his addiction. And Mike Tyson. Another one who was/is addicted.
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  #110  
Old 2003-02-18, 19:24
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Addiction to porn?
That's sad. I wasn't aware that existed.
But since there's addiction to sex, i guess there is addiction to porn too.


Addictions in general are a terrible thing,
it's sad to see someone with no will power slowly get weaker
because of his addiction.

It is very hard to help addicted people, if they are not strong enough to help themselves, their life just gets ruined with time.
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  #111  
Old 2003-02-18, 19:38
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Gustav - porn is a food of sex addicts, it keeps them under addiction, as drugs do for drugued people. But exactly as you can become addict by smoking some cigaretts, you can become a sex addict by watching some porn videos, whereas before you had never seen such images that boost the sexual imagination and so were not yet sex addicted.

Anakin - sure, and addictions exist for almost any activities, you always have to take care not to focuse on one precise activity too much. There are really adddicted PC players, some die each month in front of their PC after having spend 85 hours playing to Asheron's calls and stuff.

Humz how much time did have I spent on my PC for the last week....35 hours....whoups I'll have to take slightly care...
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  #112  
Old 2003-02-18, 21:31
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I think we must define porn...


I really don't see any evil in a husband and wife buying a sex help/advice book or videotape...not only are they married, they are trying to grow closer together by sharing an even better (natural) experience with each other.


Morden: Unless you are radicle, you are essentially part of the axis of evil.
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  #113  
Old 2003-02-18, 22:04
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Sex addiction is completely different from drug addiction.
It stems completely from emotional problems and frustrations rather than the physical and mental effect and addictiveness a certain substance has. If you deal with your problems you will get rid of sex addiction, but with drug addiction you also have the physical addiction to deal with.

People will become heroin addicts if they frequently use heroin, but people that frequently have sex won't get addicted to it on this account. So I don't think that watching others have sex does cause addiction. For sex addiction you need a 'screwed up' mind, not just a picture of two people going at it.

What's with this attitude about sex being evil anyway? Why is sex morally reprehensible if the two sexual partners aren't married? Violence, that can be concidered evil because it causes serious harm, but (concentual off course) sex doesn't.
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  #114  
Old 2003-02-18, 22:07
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cloneguy
What's with this attitude about sex being evil anyway? Why is sex morally reprehensible if the two sexual partners aren't married?
Well, I mean, I think that it is such a sacred institution that I will wait until I am married, but then again, I'd hope that my girl would feel the same.
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  #115  
Old 2003-02-19, 18:33
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DJ - sex advice books if you want, but watching real pornos (with real people fucking) cant help the couple in any way to grow up, it's quite pointless to witness other people's intimity instead of having yours.

Cloneguy - nope sex gives as drugs pleasure, and with all the hormonal things and stuff it can become a physical need, farther than a simple psychologic stress or stuff.

Sex isnt evil, and indeed cant be compared with violence. It deals with an other scale : the union of two bodies that has to coincide with the union of two minds, the respect of the other that begins with the unicity of the partner, and by a will of faithfulness, and many many other troubles free sex can lead to (disease transmissions, abandonments, abortions...).
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  #116  
Old 2003-02-19, 20:02
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Quote:
Originally posted by Firephoenix

DF - tastes arent all written in genes, developpment plays a big role in tastes and behaviours. You cant say pornos or gore movies havent direct effects on personnalities, I got many speech of people that had been very hurted by such medias (especially during the youth of course, that's during the developpment that they are mostly effective on the psychism), got a twisted view of world and sexuality, and acted badly, had perversious behaviour then.
Violent games (really violent I say, style sanitarium or Doom 3, of course games like CS havent any more effect on personnality than basic action scenes of movies) or movies (hannibal, mechanical orange) can really increase the mental trouble of individuals, even if they have already a good part oof stress and violence in themselves, and when I see that 3 guys have killed an old man after having just watched Doberman, I think they wouldnt have gone from thought to act without that booster, you cant deny the impact of sensations on the character.

There are many things people do that arent instincts, basic instinct leads men toward women, they surelly havent in the genes the orgies 12 mn and women are able to do together, mixed upo with green plants and animals. And porn isnt the cause of raps, just a factor that can only increase weird views of sexualities (some people finally reallly believe every women are always willing to have sex, even if they say no) and an "object" perception of women.
COLOR]
I never said everything was in the genes, the nature/nuture argument is as old as time itself.
I just dont believe that any medium can be blamed for an individuals actions.
We have sentients, we have choice.
Its not a games fault if we are violent, or our genes, or our parents, ITS OUR FAULT.
--
And actualy FP, basic instict tells a man to mate.
It does not tell him to love, or care for the women, or children.
Speaking purely in terms of instinct and evolution a man cant go wrong by raping everyone in site.
Luckly, society has risen above these insticts.
Porn dosnt somehow make men more willing to rape, and neither does it make females seem as "objects".
Thats a common argument, and I have yet to see it explained logicaly.
More to the point, how comes rape has gone down drasticaly over the last century or so, whereas porn as skyrockted?

And maybe games can make someone spontanously get up and shoot someone.
Maybe it is the last thread in the chain that drives someone to kill.
but really, anything could be that last bit.

I might murder the next person I hear with the Harry Poter sound track as a mobile ring tone, for instace!
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  #117  
Old 2003-02-19, 21:10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
I might murder the next person I hear with the Harry Poter sound track as a mobile ring tone, for instace!
No need for that, just destroy the phone
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  #118  
Old 2003-02-19, 21:39
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/me hides phone

What about self-pleasure then? Does that make you more prone to "unusual" behavior, since it, like porn, is often considered "evil"?
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  #119  
Old 2003-02-20, 06:59
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I always didn't like porn.
I do consider it evil, it's kind of an instinct..
I don't know why I consider it evil.
All i know is i'll never take part in anything of that sort, or get involved with anyone who does.

I guess you can call me old-fashioned.
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  #120  
Old 2003-02-20, 13:58
Morden279 Morden279 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pandemona
No need for that, just destroy the phone
Yes, I nearly to my undying shame cursed the name of John Williams for writing that bloody soundtrack.

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  #121  
Old 2003-02-20, 16:41
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Humans arent free in their choices in the absolute, their judgement depends a lot of their nuture and culture. Someone that grows in an atmosphere of violence or of free sex has really little chances to build himself moral values that could make him pacifist or faithful with his wife. So a big part of the faultt can be repported on gammes or movies that have contributed to alter the right view of life of the guy. Humans are very easily unable to make reasonnable choices, blaming them without removing the factors of immoralily and violence is pointless.

Human societies have build moral values above
instinct, but porn is precisely destroying those instinct barriers. I'm sorry, but when people fuck without knowing anything of the partner, without loving it but just as a physic act, it's a decay to the animal state, for both males and females.

I dont know the exact figures, but imo if rapes decreased it's thanks to an increasing security and respect of women, that cant be due to the viewing of porn movies. I dont know if porn can work has compensations for guys that have violent instincts, but it can only make them worst, that's sure. And btw reported attacks by former or current boyfriends, husbands and parental figures rose dramatically in the 1990s, as did those by men who had known the victim for less than 24 hours, and many people think the police's figures are widely undersestimated (10 times bigger actually), because women now feel more guilty to be raped and dont dare revealing the crime. Only rapes committed by strangers visibly decreased. Imo if people rape more of more girls of their acquaintance, alone or with friends, that's in a great part due to the girl image porn medias broadcast.

Of course a murder after having watched a gore movie isnt only due to that movie, but it's an important factor, several factors like that easily condiuct the guy to commit a crime. That's tooo easy to maintain that he woudl have committed a crime anyway, because of an other factor. It's not written in the guy's destiny that he must commit a crime, and without boosting events like such movies there are huge chances that he never committed it. Nope that's not anything that can lead someone to kill, those are particular factors, and removing those factors is the best way to avoid crime, instead of pputting that on the shoulders of fatality. You'll never know the oother destiny a murderer could have had, so there is no excuse for medias that unleash violent instincts, they ARE causes of crimes.
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Last edited by Firephoenix; 2003-02-20 at 16:46.
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  #122  
Old 2003-02-21, 00:09
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I've watched The Godfather trilogy about about a bazillion times, and I have no desire to perform any of the following:
  • Shoot a Turk and a Police Captain point blank in the head with a gun
  • Shoot people coming out of an elevator with a shotgun
  • lock someone in a revolving door and shoot them in the heart
  • break into a massage parlor and shoot someone in the eyeball
  • choke someone to death with a pillow
  • cut off a horse's head and place it in my enemies bed
  • etc...
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  #123  
Old 2003-02-21, 16:59
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WTF can well be the point in watching movies which's goal cant be else than making you worst ?

Even in the inconscient gore images and behaviours alter your judgement, and it wouldnt amaze me if under high stress you acted more badly just cause of the violence you watched before. And even if you feel yourself out of influence, it doesnt seem to be the case of everyone (read the misc. facts in newspapers, some are amazing).
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  #124  
Old 2003-02-21, 17:40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J
I've watched The Godfather trilogy about about a bazillion times, and I have no desire to perform any of the following:
  • Shoot a Turk and a Police Captain point blank in the head with a gun
  • Shoot people coming out of an elevator with a shotgun
  • lock someone in a revolving door and shoot them in the heart
  • break into a massage parlor and shoot someone in the eyeball
  • choke someone to death with a pillow
  • cut off a horse's head and place it in my enemies bed
  • etc...
You forgot stapling someone's hand to a table with a knife!
(the only scene i remember)
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  #125  
Old 2003-02-21, 20:12
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some of you are really stupid. if you are brought up in a shit family with crack addict parents and a fucking rabid dog, then yes, you will watch films like these and do things in them. But most people i know watch violent films and dont kill people, get in fights, rape people. I really cannot see your psychology here
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