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View Poll Results: Does the human race deserve to exist?
Yes 18 66.67%
No 5 18.52%
I don't know 4 14.81%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 2003-10-11, 19:23
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Dude, your forgeting where MBN's severs are arnt you?

The earths oceans are huge, but it wont spread out evenly instantly, their will probably be tidal waves for a few years before it settles down. (the period of the phase-change)
--
As for the moon, im not sure how legaly binding those things are.

The "name a star" things are bullshit enough, you literaly just get your name on a certificate.
That is ALL.
They cant even garenty the star hasnt already been named.

Quote:
Please realize that those ideas of "making the race better" are fucking nuts. It will only lead to destructive nazi stuff.

Not everyone is simplistic enough to think that.
Nazis didnt invent the idea, they just currupted it to an extent that people cant un-associate it and think rationaly about it.
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  #52  
Old 2003-10-12, 02:42
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Wtf, you call me simplistic?

I, unlike you, think of the consequenses with such a method. Forced sterlization is first of all fucking idiotic. Do you understand how easy it is to pick the wrong person? Do you understand that it will be just like the american justice system where they kill everyone for crimes they havent commited.

The whole system would be corrupted, and who shall rule it? "Only people with right genes can have children" I mean, wtf, isnt that about purifying the race? And what does that lead to? Segregation! Of course there will be nutters and scientists that will try to find out differences between the people with the right genes and people with different. That leads us to racial biology. I mean WTF YOUR FUCKIGN SUGGESTION IS DISGUSTING. You say that people with certain amount of intelligence and strength shall be able to have more children. Its so fucking nuts, let's create a ├╝bermensch, lets mix the two most beautiful and succesful persons in the world and create the ultimate human! Yes! Fuck the rest, fuck those without education and fuck the handicapped! They dont deserve the right that nature has given us! FFS

What will happen to those who arent perfect as their genes are dying out? Shall we make them die faster by sterilization or execution? Implementing your theory will create hate and sickness, humanity wont be able to handle such a thing. I believe in the difference and freedom between the characters in the human race and that all men and women are created equal with their own personal special abilities. Obviously you and those who agree with you dont.

This is one of the sicker views on stuff Ive seen in this forum.
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  #53  
Old 2003-10-12, 06:02
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If you call me "fucking nuts" i think i have a right to defend my point.
Besides, I didnt call you simplistic, you said "people realise...."
it was those 'people' i was calling simplistic.
--

To get the wrong person?

a) Unlike the death sentance, their are methods of re-enableing a persons reproductive system.

Also, in case's of rape theirs generaly stack-loads of evidence, normaly physical. I am well aware of the problems with the US justice system, but thats a whole different dicusion.

"the whole system could be currupt" ???

ANY fucking system CAN be currupt, that isnt anywhere near a decent argument.

"and who shall rule it"

I already said things voted for by the majoirty




And actualy...reading the rest of what you said, i cant be bothered to reply..you havnt been paying attention.
Like quite a lot of people you read the word "eugenics", and put your blinkers on.
Instead of reading what people say, or mean, you asume you already know it.

So go ahead, assume i have these sick views, 99% of what you are saying is bad i never surgested, your mearly (badly) infering it.
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  #54  
Old 2003-10-12, 14:28
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Well, I personally think some mental disabled need to be sterilised. Not because of bad genes or something, but because 1) those people have no clue what they're doing, 2) you'll get cases of children that need to take care of their parents (no, two mental disabled don't produce a child that's also mental disabled, the chance of that is very very small for some reason)

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  #55  
Old 2003-10-12, 15:36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gustav Sweden
Wtf, you call me simplistic?

I, unlike you, think of the consequenses with such a method. Forced sterlization is first of all fucking idiotic. Do you understand how easy it is to pick the wrong person? Do you understand that it will be just like the american justice system where they kill everyone for crimes they havent commited.

The whole system would be corrupted, and who shall rule it? "Only people with right genes can have children" I mean, wtf, isnt that about purifying the race? And what does that lead to? Segregation! Of course there will be nutters and scientists that will try to find out differences between the people with the right genes and people with different. That leads us to racial biology. I mean WTF YOUR FUCKIGN SUGGESTION IS DISGUSTING. You say that people with certain amount of intelligence and strength shall be able to have more children. Its so fucking nuts, let's create a ├╝bermensch, lets mix the two most beautiful and succesful persons in the world and create the ultimate human! Yes! Fuck the rest, fuck those without education and fuck the handicapped! They dont deserve the right that nature has given us! FFS

What will happen to those who arent perfect as their genes are dying out? Shall we make them die faster by sterilization or execution? Implementing your theory will create hate and sickness, humanity wont be able to handle such a thing. I believe in the difference and freedom between the characters in the human race and that all men and women are created equal with their own personal special abilities. Obviously you and those who agree with you dont.

This is one of the sicker views on stuff Ive seen in this forum.
I think you're right.

Why would sick people, handicapped people, stupid people and unathletic people have less right to live and reproduce?
You are saying that people who happen to have genes that make them bigger and smarter should have more rights than others, this is monstrous in my opinion.
And don't say "You're wrong because you misread what I say" because I didn't.

It is a crime to streilize people just because they have less advantages than other people.
Or would it be ok to put poor people into work camps? same basic principle, the people with most advantages remain and a problem is solved. What you are suggesting IS an idea heavilly supported by nazi's, no question about that.
It was of course not invented by nazi's, Plato already spoke about it and the American psychologist Watson wanted to 'purify the race' as well, but I think Ideas like those are sick and lead only to destruction (see past for reference)
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  #56  
Old 2003-10-12, 15:38
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You DID miss read, because i never mentioned sick or hancaped people AT ALL.

Formore I never said "Only people with strength should reproduce"

Fucking read stuf, and dont accuse me of this SHIT.

PISS OFF.
GET A LIFE.

If you want to make up shit about me being a Nazi, go ahead, but dont make me have to read it.


Again, allmost all your saying I NEVER SURGESTE.
Camps for people? WHERE THE FUCK did i mention that???
PURIFYING THE RACE?

Pureing is about unifoirmity, strength is in varience....Eugenics can be used to make varience just as much as it can uniformity.

This is a perfect example of how the Nazis have completed pissed all over a legitmate conept.
People cant think straight about it.

===
Atresica~Depends on the cause, there is genetic mental handicaps, decease based ones, and pysological ones.
Only one of those would have benifits to future generations.

Because of that i wouldnt recomend any sterilisation purely because someone has mental problems.
It offers no almost benifit to the future, yet reduces the individuals ability to live their life.
Besides, rapers and murders have the more dangerious mental problems. (as i said earlier, while evil isnt a gene intensity of sex drive and overall agreesion levels probably are geneticly based)

However, I agree, if the handicap is sever enough, then purhapes they shouldnt be allowed for the benifit of their children.


Too much emphasis is being put on the rights of someone to have children these days, and we put absolute zero rights on the quality of living for future generations.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2003-10-12 at 15:47.
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  #57  
Old 2003-10-12, 15:40
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I kinda agree with cloneguy.
Moreover, i think that if we're gonna fight over-population, we should limit the amount of children of all humans.
Not say something like "Fat people can't have kids"

No human has the right to judge another human.
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  #58  
Old 2003-10-12, 15:49
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What about Rapers and Murders? We judge those all the time.

What about all the thousands of people in the world that wouldnt normaly be able to have kids if it wasnt for science and IVF treament?

We already are frelling with the genetics of future generations.
We should at least do it in a more rational way.
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  #59  
Old 2003-10-12, 15:56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
What about Rapers and Murders? We judge those all the time.

Yes. And unfortunately, some countries have the death penalty.

The main objective of trials, and courthouses are not to judge, they're to protect the public.
When a guy goes to prison, he goes there because he poses a threat to the public, not because he's been a naughty boy.
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  #60  
Old 2003-10-12, 16:00
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Death sentances i dont approve off, it cant be reversed and its done for revenage.

And the courthouse, jurys THEY ARE to judge.
They judge
a) If there is enough evidence to prove without dought someone has done a crime.

b) What there punishment is.

The punishment holds 2 purpose's
1. Protect the public
2. A deterant.
Far too often it is done as revenage.


Sterilising rapers and (1d) murders, is no more "jugding them", then it is to just send them to jail normaly.
There should be a very hard body of evidence in place, yes.
But i would say the exact same thing for sending someone away for 25 years anyway.
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  #61  
Old 2003-10-12, 19:35
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I agree with you...

-

"punishment" this is quite fucked up. Do you think the murderer would have done his murder if he had had a normal life and education : i believe he wouldn't. I believe that everything depends of our education... And i don't believe a murderer is happy. I think he needs more help than punishment.
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  #62  
Old 2003-10-12, 23:18
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Many murders/rapers have had a normaly life and eduction, many are from good backgrounds.

You cant form cliches in your minds. Not all murders are poor people, or people with a bad upbringing.

Dosnt mater anyway. Regardless of your enviroment you have a thing called "freewill".
It makes you responsible for your actions.
---
Besides I outlined the perpose of the punishment:

The punishment holds 2 purpose's
1. Protect the public
2. A deterant.
Far too often it is done as revenage.


Do you see where I said Far too often it is done as revenage. Do you see where I wrote that?

Do you see that

Punishment is mearly the term given to the actions that are applied to the guilty party. Theres nothing at all wrong with punishment as long as its done for the *correct* reasons.

Id be the first to say it shouldnt be done for revenge.
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  #63  
Old 2003-10-13, 03:45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
Heck, I think its fucked up that people with inheritable, terminal decease's can have kids...that should be illegal.
Quote:
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You DID miss read, because i never mentioned sick or hancaped people AT ALL.
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  #64  
Old 2003-10-13, 03:47
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  #65  
Old 2003-10-13, 14:57
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Quote:
Originally posted by DedalousDiggle
"sick and hanicaped" is a dam site different from " inheritable, terminal decease's".

Inheritable, terminal decease's means YOU WILL DIE EARLY AND ITS GARENTIED you will pass it on either as a carrier or active in your children.

Sick and Hancaped is completely different, much wider catagory.
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  #66  
Old 2003-10-13, 18:29
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I don't understand whats so bad about taking away murderers' ability to procreate.

Sure, from a human stand point, it seems inhumane and barbaric. But this is rapers and premeditated murderers we're talking about. People that have made a choice to commit such actions way before they were done. People that had chosen pre-hand to end and ravish other's life.

In such a case, I think the penalty should be death (it being an equivalent status with that of their victim). To me, sterilization is too soft of a punishment (even with jailtime). Besides, how many of those rapers and murderers actually want to have kids? How many of them even have a chance?

Someone who takes away life should not have the right to create it.
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  #67  
Old 2003-10-13, 22:40
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so you're saying that taking away a life is bad. What then gives the state the right to kill? As far as I know, criminals still have rights.
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  #68  
Old 2003-10-13, 23:03
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Basically he, just like his Texas neighbor, is out skating on thin ice so to say.
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  #69  
Old 2003-10-14, 00:39
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No one has right to do the death penalty. Actually, I believe that there is not even the RIGHT to lock people..but thats 'needed'. Do not search justice in socitey, it does not exist.
-
And all punishments are about revenge, I believe that there are enough people that just the fact that they got sent into Jail made them realize their mistake. Lets say we know that for sure, the murder/raper/whoever has now realized his mistake and gonna try change his ways, now, would we set them free with no punishment at all? No. Why? revenge...the family victim would want it, and I can not blame them, I would want the same. But thats not justice, all the point of the punishment is that people will change their ways, and be good people. Therefor there is no justice, there is just the benefit of the majority, and thats the only reason why this system is workin.
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  #70  
Old 2003-10-14, 04:47
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No, we dont set him free because we dont have telepathic abilities, theres no way for us to know when/if he regrets his actions

How do we know he is just pretending to get off early??
If we had telepathic abilitys then we might be able to do what you said, but we dont so we cant.

Theres also the mater of a deterent, the threat of being sent to jail for a long time IS a strong deterant to stop people doing stuff.
Premedated stuff, that is.

Im sorry, Bomba, but you dont realise their is some pretty fucked up people in this world.
Not everyone can be "cured" by sending them to jail for a few months.


So, no you are wrong, punshiment is JUST a general term.
It CAN be for revenage, yes, and of course that is very wrong.

But it can be for public protection, and as a deterant.

You cant just label all punishment as blind revenage.

And IMO, sterlisation of rapers ect is far more usefull as public protection (includes the horror of any having kids) and as a deterant.
I dont see how its a "revange" action, any more then locking some one up for years is.
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  #71  
Old 2003-10-14, 10:57
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I know that we can't know, I was talkin theortically, IF we would KNOW we would still put them in jail.
-
I know that there are really fucked up people, and I know the Jail system works in X cases, just saying that there are enough cases where it's complete bullshit and justice is never made there. My point, there will neveer be real justice for revenge is an important factor of punishment, and who can blame the people who want revenge..no one.
-
Oh, and I do believe that inheritable terminal decease people should be forbid to have kids, it's inhertiable....but I thought it'll be obvious for themeself not to have kids considerin the fact they know their problem...
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  #72  
Old 2003-10-14, 11:15
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You people are saying exactly what i said,
the important thing isn't whether the person is really bad, or he regrets it, or he wants another chance, blah blah blah.
We can never know what's going on in the criminal's mind.
What we do when we lock people up is protecting society, because there's a risk that that person poses a danger to it.
That's IT.
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  #73  
Old 2003-10-14, 15:56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bomba!

Oh, and I do believe that inheritable terminal decease people should be forbid to have kids, it's inhertiable....but I thought it'll be obvious for themeself not to have kids considerin the fact they know their problem...
It is obvious, but not that obvious, because if it was that obvious ingeritable terminal decease's would have died out long ago.
As I said before, most people with them chose not to have children.
But sadly, most isnt the same as "all".
--
As for the jail, IMO, its a bad solution in most case's.
We need it as a deterent and as protection.
But I dont see why they should be locked up and doing bugger-all for most there lives.
They should at least be able to make practical contributions to society.

There should be pre-set industarys for prisoners, far more then there is now.
Prisons could be more like mult-skilled factorys, preferably for "charity" like things....things that benifit society.

Eugenics can help in the long,long,long term though.
If rapers arnt allowed to bread, then their increased sexual drive will evolve out.
(its not as clear cut, of course...a persons morals would mostly enable people to resit doing hedious things, even if their body is crying out for it. But generation by generation at least their would be less to resist, and so people would need increaseing worse morals in order to do such things).

In a simerlar way extream aggression can be evolved out if first-degree murders arnt allowed to bread.

The long term benfits are very real. I support these things because it will improve the quality of live for future generations.

However, the short-term benifit would be no/few children having to be brought up with a muder/raper as a father.
And the deterant factor would increase too.

As i said before, it comes down to my belief that we shouldnt all assume everyone has the right to force their genes onto the next generation. Some people just dont deserve to be able to do that.
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  #74  
Old 2003-10-15, 01:57
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As someone with a form of Autism, which is classified as a mental disability, I followed the progress of this thread even before I decided to register and was somewhat shocked...

I get the feeling that, if certain posters here get there way, I will be arrested one of these days and forced to have my.... equipment disabled.

I don't really see why 'normal' or 'healthy' people should decide that I'm not allowed to procreate....

The mother of my children (if there ever will be a mother of my children) and I will decide that for ourselves thank you very much...
The fact that any child of mine runs the risk (VERY small, but still) that he/she will not be able to function properly in society is something we'll just have to take into account then.

Anyway as for the original question: Nope, humanity doesn't deserve to exist, much the same way a rock doesn't deserve to exist, but both exist so why get worked up about it?
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  #75  
Old 2003-10-15, 02:15
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I agree with you
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