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  #751  
Old 2007-02-07, 20:01
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If you boil every game down your going to either be solving puzzles, or hitting enemys.

The best you get is one where the puzzles are original (like puzzles about movement itself), and where the story is kick-arse.

Pop: Sands of Time is both of these.
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  #752  
Old 2007-02-07, 21:04
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Of course you can boil down every game to down, but somehow in other games I don't mind it, there is still enough variety and complexity for me to stay hooked.
It's like looking at the parking garage level in Max Payne that is several floors of parking lots, but the level designers knew when to end the level and come up with something new; and looking at the general level design of Halo that felt like one room for each level copied and pasted.
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  #753  
Old 2007-02-07, 22:47
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Playing 'Splinter Cell: Double Agent'. It's a very nice game, but something is missing.
Freedom!

Someone should create a game that is purely about freedom. "The Freedom Game Project"...
The whole gameset would begin with you (the player) being a completely average person. There will be no objectives. No stats. No quests.

If you choose to, you can just spend your character's day playing poker with his friends.

If you choose to, you can kill your poker friends by pouring cyanide in their beer, steal their wallets, and fly off to antarctica, to hunt penguins and do whatever.

I would like to play that game.
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  #754  
Old 2007-02-07, 23:02
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meh.
I think it would get boring.

Freedom in a game is great, but its only fun if you have some objective.
MMORPG's try to give you freedom, and many soft ones let you do lots of minigames and stuff. But they dont give lasting fun.

I think the key is too have an objective, but no "preplaned" way to solve it.
The game world and physics lets you have many possibilitys, but non laid out for you. You find your own solution.
That is, varying ways to solve the same objective.

The objective dosnt have to be saving the world, mind.
Could just be survival or profit. (theres some small MMO game set on a boat about that. Anyone can be a player, and anyone could be out to kill you...but they cant let themselfs be known openly).


I game that I thought was begging to be made like this is a Zombie stratergy game.
Rather then the Resident Evil/Alone in the Dark "puzzles and shotgun" approach, Id like a game were theres a fully simulated town.
Every detail is like, real.
And theres a zombie outbreak.

What do you do? Run? Hide? Fight? Save your friends? Or look after number 1?
You dont know how long you have to servive for...do you raid a supermarket then hide? Or try to lead the zombies into a area where you can lock them off and kill them before they infect others?
Do you save your friend...and thus gain use of his car and house.
Or do you run to the weapon shop....before the owner is "turned".

The game could be a bit like Groundhog Day, or Daybreak.
You learn about the order of events that happen and you have the freedom to "much about" with the timeline each time you play.

The only game that even vagualy let you play with a timeline in this day was Majoras Mask. But even that only did it lightly.

Quote:
It's like looking at the parking garage level in Max Payne that is several floors of parking lots, but the level designers knew when to end the level and come up with something new; and looking at the general level design of Halo that felt like one room for each level copied and pasted.
Yes, but Pop isnt like that at all.
Save for a few endless respawn points.

Everything seemed so fresh and atmospheric at every stage.
Dispite being set in one building, it was very diverse.
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  #755  
Old 2007-02-07, 23:18
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First of all, technically only Purple Sheep is allowed to say Meh.

You had some great ideas here, but what I'm talking about is complete freedom with no preset objectives. You can have a huge crazy world and many many different cities, cultures, even other planets maybe. The Internet and specialized software would make such awesome quantities possible.

You can do whatever. You can stay home, and decide your objective in the game to, say... getting promoted in your work.
Or you can decide your objective is to be king of Atlantis. You can do whatever.
You can also stalk random people (AI or not AI if you're playing online) and see how they go on about in their life.

Just a few ideas... I'm 100% sure it would NOT be boring.
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  #756  
Old 2007-02-08, 11:48
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Fishos - you mean something like Second Life?
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3219285,00.html
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3324993,00.html

(my apologies to non hebrew speakers)
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  #757  
Old 2007-02-08, 12:07
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Yeah, this looks great. But the graphics suck too much
There's also there.
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  #758  
Old 2007-02-08, 12:33
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scarface: the world is yours
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  #759  
Old 2007-02-08, 12:46
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well, its a case of physcology really.
I dont think total freedom would be total entertainment.

If you look at the really rich in the real world, they seldom stick to things that can do elsely with their money. Dispite having millions, they look for things that would be a challange.
Bill Gates trys to whipe out decease's, Branson kept trying to go around the world in a balloon, Paul Allan supposed SpaceShipOne. (and now is paying shitloads to SETI).

Of course, you could argue they had the freedom to try all this stuff, sure.
But Id say its the restrictions they set themselfs...the challange or goal...that makes it entertaining.
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  #760  
Old 2007-02-08, 12:51
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Ok, then wouldn't it be awesome to have a game that has so much freedom, that you would be able to set your own goal in it?
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  #761  
Old 2007-02-08, 19:24
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What's the point in playing a game about life? Just go do it yourself and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
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  #762  
Old 2007-02-08, 19:26
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In real life you can't bend the laws of physics.

Besides, I think that most of the players in that game should be NPC AI anyway, more fun and no pangs of conscience! (that is, if your mission is to be the king of Atlantis or something like that..)
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  #763  
Old 2007-02-08, 22:11
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Finished Fallout.
This game is simply brilliant, the options are endless, the final area that was supposed to take some effort turned into a really short bit thanks to conversation skills that made a guy take me straight to the final boss.

Tsk, I want Fallout 3 already...
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  #764  
Old 2007-02-08, 22:23
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Wow, Fallout... the memories... I can't be bothered to play the first one though...

Don't hold your breath for Fallout 3, the *real* Fallout 3 has been canceled a long time ago, right before the development work was done.

Now it's just a bunch of dumb people thinking they have the ability to make a sequel... (read more at No Mutants Allowed)
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  #765  
Old 2007-02-08, 22:43
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Why do you call the guys at Bethesda dumb?
They know their way around RPGs.
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"Ignorance is bliss" (Cypher, 'The Matrix')
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  #766  
Old 2007-02-08, 23:00
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meh...
Bethesda has serious issues crancking out a proper game.

Arena was nice,
Daggerfall was awesomely large and filled with bugs
Morrowing was very restricting
Oblivion forced the main story uppon the player

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/83/11
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  #767  
Old 2007-02-09, 03:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Ok, then wouldn't it be awesome to have a game that has so much freedom, that you would be able to set your own goal in it?
hmz.
Maybe you could have a game....a whole planet....made from sections.
Anyone can program,design, and make a section.

Youd not only build a world up wiki-style, but youd also build objectives as you go.
Some sections might have race courses, some sections might be in war situations, others might have simple bars and club games...anything.

The charecter you play have dosnt even have fixed stats.
Rather a list of attributes where any section can add its own.

eg.
Money, Strength, Speed would be common and pretty universal properties.

But some sections might want to add their own character skills or properties.
Essentialy, your charecter would be as flexible as any real life person.

There would be limits on how much each section could give out, however.
And money would need to be standardised.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2007-02-09 at 03:31.
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  #768  
Old 2007-02-09, 09:15
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Darkflame - Yep, sounds like a plan.
One thing I would altar in this plan is no "skill points" or any other kind of points. At least no visible ones. I want my player to just witness his own progression and state - just like in real life life, you don't get to check out your skill points.
But you can f.e., get up on a scale to find out how much you weigh.

And I also don't think there should be "universal properties" set up much. They will be establish by themselves as the world (and it's sections as you said) build up. I can decide to accept only a special kind of jewels as money, and other people can follow my step. Maybe at some point someone would find an easy way to forge these jewels and we will have to find other form of money.

And these sections, once they're in the game, will be merged into the other section in a way that won't be easy to view them separately.

FB2k - I called them dumb because of an interview that was posted in No Mutants Allowed...
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  #769  
Old 2007-02-09, 09:36
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isn't that what second life offers?
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  #770  
Old 2007-02-09, 13:02
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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If I understand correctly, Second Life is oriented toward socialization... What me and darkf are talking about would be the ultimate game of all genres..!
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  #771  
Old 2007-02-09, 13:21
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Second life allows you to add your own models, but its not modular game design, its just visaul things you are contributeing to the world.

So, I guess this concept is like virtual life, but taken furthor.
A designer effectively makes the "game" for a section of the game.


Choas ~ I agree no visible stats..at least, in some cases.

However, youd want some sort of progression.
If you want your charecter to be an expert cheif...you want him to be better then any other charecter that hasnt tried being a cheif at all..right?
Also, youd want to earn respect as such too, if you enter resturants and such.

So maybe you have a little book of qualifications which stores your skills.

Strength and that would be stored, but seperately and invisibly.
However, purhapes you can goto a Gym and have your strength tested, if you wish.
Some areas of the game might require certain stats to enter, see. And while invisible stats make it more real, you need some way of telling so you can see how far off you are.

eg.
Entering a cave someone made requires pushing a big boulder to the side. (strength)
Or maybe jumping over a massive hole. (agility)

Idly, it would be kinda cool to have loads of areas in the game that are like secrets...only accessible to people with the right skills.
So when you find the area, you might make a mental note to make yourself better in that skill so you can check it out. (if you think it looks interesting).

The fun thing is, with a totaly open skill system, you could get some really crazy skills rather then just the normal.
eg.
"Only level 20 tiddlewinks players can enter this club!"
"Your nose isnt long enough! Only long nose people can come here!"
"I refuse to sale this too anyone without a long beard"


Of course, in some cases, items could help you bi-pass skill requirements...if the designer of that section thought of it. (eg, A fake beard). If the designer is particularly mean he might require another skil instead. (eg, A fake Beard + decent level in lieing about it).

I think a lot of fun in the game would be compareing your crazy skills to other peoples. And collaborating when different skillsets are needed.
Of course, skills should as much as possible be earnt with minigames and tests. So people with a skill really are better at it...not just that they have invested a lot of time doing a repedative task to get it.
Most MMOs fall into the same trap of "Do this a million times to level"...which isnt fun at all.

Another absolutely essiential thing in this game;

A Zelda/BG&E style camera system.
So you can keep an album of where you have been and who you have met.
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  #772  
Old 2007-02-09, 16:31
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We're making a progress here

The first thing the game needs to be right would be a force-feedback glove as a main controller.
The endless-variety-of-skills idea is great - but not for stuff like strength or agility. Those skills would not be developed virtually, but in reality (and maybe with adjustments to the force-feedback devices). You know, some geek gamers may have forgotten it by today, but when you practice something you *actually* become better in it. So screw RPG stats.

Secret caves and stuff would be a possibility just like anything at all would be a possibility, it would be the possibilities game.

Now let's set up a stat up and make it possible...
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  #773  
Old 2007-02-09, 22:40
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Riiiight... dream on, fellas. We won't be seeing an accurate real life simulation till someone finally invents the holodeck

Anyhow, finally made my way into the Under-gas in LBA2. The freaking assassin was tricky with half a lifebar and no clovers Fortunately I was able to replenish them in the chapel
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  #774  
Old 2007-02-09, 23:19
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finally finished fahrenheit after a lot of time i had the game. Weird game, still, quite addictive, but the controls are fucked up, and the combat scenes looks just like they were stolen from matrix
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  #775  
Old 2007-02-09, 23:21
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Get Ready!
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