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  #1  
Old 2005-05-09, 21:47
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Moscow circus... The post WWII thread.

Like in the topic, what do you think about the neo-comunist like show that is going on in Moscow. I totally agree with Norman Davies who said that it's a step bacwards to the soviet times. And what do you guys think about history books in Russia that openly lie about the WWII, that they don't remember that USSR along with the Nazi Germany started the war in the first place. And that the soviet builded death camps in eastern europe where they murdured even more people than the nazis, as well as almost 20 milion of their own citizens. They call themselves almost an empire, yet they have less money than Holland, geez, this makes me nerous, every time in the history Russia acted like this milions died, in Sybiera, in work and death camps, and in Kazakstan and so on...
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2005-05-09 at 21:53.
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  #2  
Old 2005-05-10, 16:14
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no ones interested in this eh ? I guess that Rasputin, yyy, sorry, I mean Putin isn't such an interesting topic
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  #3  
Old 2005-05-10, 19:23
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Those history books must be outdated. The editors would have to be total lunatics not to realize that 95% of the world knows what really happened during WW2. My mom took history classes in USSR and even she knew that Stalin helped Hitler during the war.
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  #4  
Old 2005-05-10, 19:44
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Becoue it depended on the family type, and the inteligence of the reader, some people red between the lines in those books and saw that there where too many loose ends, modern Russians think that they actualy saved the center and eastern europe. They didn't helped a bit, during the uprising in Warsaw, the soviet troops stood on the other bank of the river, and shoot everyone trying to escape from the city that was being raised by the Germans. And also the soviet troops stripped everything, in eastern and center europe. After the war the whole oposition was opressed and murdured by the USSR - there's nothing about this, or hundreds of other facts in the russian history books, they write their own history, a history of a glorious nation, but in reality they are, and always where a prison for other nations - trying to swallow too much.
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  #5  
Old 2005-05-10, 20:32
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Putin is a cunt. And the quicker they admit that they were scum during the war, the better.
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  #6  
Old 2005-05-10, 22:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek
Becoue it depended on the family type, and the inteligence of the reader, some people red between the lines in those books and saw that there where too many loose ends, modern Russians think that they actualy saved the center and eastern europe. They didn't helped a bit, during the uprising in Warsaw, the soviet troops stood on the other bank of the river, and shoot everyone trying to escape from the city that was being raised by the Germans. And also the soviet troops stripped everything, in eastern and center europe. After the war the whole oposition was opressed and murdured by the USSR - there's nothing about this, or hundreds of other facts in the russian history books, they write their own history, a history of a glorious nation, but in reality they are, and always where a prison for other nations - trying to swallow too much.
Dude, I'm sorry to say.. But you're quite ignorant. Have you ever read a modern Russian history book? I'm sorry to disappoint you, but many of this stuff is present there.
And also... During the war, no country was quite "angelic"... What can we do, politics are dirty. And the USSR had politic and tactical reasons not to help the Warsaw uprising other than a few laughable containers with supplies.
This happened, but right now I don't see it denied in Russia. You just said a whole bunch of ignorant stuff without any proof.

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Originally Posted by Pandy
Putin is a cunt. And the quicker they admit that they were scum during the war, the better.
I totally agree that Putin is stupid.
And of course, officially, the country isn't going to admit that they were scum. Just like the US doesn't admit of many things, and England doesn't, and many countries don't.
But still, there is no denial at the level you're trying to make it.
I think you confuse nowdays and communist days. (Although it seems that Putin IS trying to get back to gaining total control.. This KGB scum.. )
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  #7  
Old 2005-05-10, 23:16
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Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the country now is completely different to the communist days (which weren't so long ago) but I still think Russia should release the files and reveal the truth which is so obvious. As for Putin, he is a dodgy character and a half. I don't trust the guy one bit.
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Old 2005-05-10, 23:23
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Xakep_INC, maby your right about the school books - I havent red any of those, but many russians themselves - in TV interviews, and in newspapers said the same thing. And the ignorance in Russian newspapers is striking, also the speach that Rasputin said was a bunch of crap. I've got some materials about this, but I don't have the time to translate it(one more exam in two days). And personally I think that the Polish president shouldn't go to Moscow, but, he's, well, no comment on him - let's say I just don't like him... He shouldve stayed here, and organise a different festin, for the leaders of the Baltic countries, and the countries of eastern and middle europe, and of course everyone else who'd like to come. Ah, but you won't deny that Russia is still trying to be an empire, yet they're less powerfull than Holland or Switzerland. I'm not being ignorant dude, I'm just angry inside, that thanks to them my country, as well as eastern europe had almost 300 years of terror. And now theyre trying to make our role unimportant, as if the army of my country hadn't been the fourth in size during the WWII, and Putin seems to think the the sacrafices of countries different than Russia weren't huge.
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  #9  
Old 2005-05-11, 03:44
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During a recent foreign deplomicy conference, Putin insulted a female delegate, sarcastically inclined that her Russian speech sucked, that she shouldn't be an idiot, and told her to read between the lines, all on public television.

You know, if he was a president of United States, he would have been kicked out of office immediately.
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  #10  
Old 2005-05-11, 08:51
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IS there any country that werent scum during the war?
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  #11  
Old 2005-05-11, 08:55
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Well, Jasiek, there's no choice for that... As long as Putin's government is running, the TV interviews will be painfully perverted, and everything will be bad. I already told you what I think about the dude.

And by the way, no. NO COUNTRY WAS NON-SCUM DURING THE WAR.
Every country has a list of things to ponder on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightwing
During a recent foreign deplomicy conference, Putin insulted a female delegate, sarcastically inclined that her Russian speech sucked, that she shouldn't be an idiot, and told her to read between the lines, all on public television.

You know, if he was a president of United States, he would have been kicked out of office immediately.
Hehe..
You see, I don't like this guy too.. I think he wants total control over Russia an he's just an arrogant ex-KGB control freak.
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  #12  
Old 2005-05-11, 09:32
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He was served wine and cakes laced with potassium cyanide. The poison was ineffective, so they shot Rasputin three times in the chest, back and head, and beat him around the head with a dumb-bell handle. They then tied him up in a sheet and dropped him through a hole in the ice into the Neva River. He drifted under the ice, still fighting to free himself. Can someone tell me why is he still alive and became a president? Maby becouse he's a mad houself, very fond of his dirty old sock.
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  #13  
Old 2005-05-11, 09:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xakep_INC
And by the way, no. NO COUNTRY WAS NON-SCUM DURING THE WAR.
Every country has a list of things to ponder on.
Yes. It's just that the USSR's list is a good deal longer than most others.
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  #14  
Old 2005-05-11, 12:34
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well, switzerland wa pretty ok, and some small countries in south america, us swedes werent that horrible
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  #15  
Old 2005-05-11, 12:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandy
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the country now is completely different to the communist days (which weren't so long ago) but I still think Russia should release the files and reveal the truth which is so obvious. As for Putin, he is a dodgy character and a half. I don't trust the guy one bit.

A great deal of the archives were thrown open during Glasnost in 1989
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  #16  
Old 2005-05-11, 15:44
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A great deal of archives does not mean the most important ones where released.
The whole europe should ask the Russians constantly and officially to open ALL the archives containing information about the WWII, and at least ten years after it. And they can't say that it is a matter of national security, becouse they're saying that Russia is now a democratic country, then why are they hiding documents contanining information about the crimes of a regime that does not exist anymore ?
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  #17  
Old 2005-05-11, 15:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek
A great deal of archives does not mean the most important ones where released.
The whole europe should ask the Russians constantly and officially to open ALL the archives containing information about the WWII, and at least ten years after it. And they can't say that it is a matter of national security, becouse they're saying that Russia is now a democratic country, then why are they hiding documents contanining information about the crimes of a regime that does not exist anymore ?

Most of the British war archives still aren't available (not sure about other countries but most likely the same)
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  #18  
Old 2005-05-11, 18:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_angry_
A great deal of the archives were thrown open during Glasnost in 1989
And a great deal more were locked away even tighter than before.
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Old 2005-05-12, 05:33
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It's really pathetic. I bet there are hundreds of breathless, shocking secrets about USSR that won't be revealed for a VERY long time (not until our civilization dies out and we're all escavated like an Egyptian pyramid). I have a feeling, that during this occurence, people will also find that United States was somehow directly involved in J. F. Kennedy's assassination. But, that's a different discussion.
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  #20  
Old 2005-05-12, 14:55
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Lighty - It's clear that LBJ had some form of orchestration or another with JFK's death. But I doubt anything will be revealed until no one can be "hurt" by the information released, which means everyone (including people like Henry Kissinger, et al) who could be affected (not implying he was involved, just an example).

From what I saw on a documentary on the History Channel, Stalin has Hitler's skull remains locked up in the Kremlin archives...
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