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  #1  
Old 2007-05-24, 14:54
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Censorship

I feel like starting a thread titled "Censorship". And I just did! yeay!


Do you think violence in computer games is good?
Do you think there's "bad" and "good" violence in games? (for example, slaying zombies is ok but running over school kids with your car is bad)

Do you support censorship of some subjects, but not others? (for example, underage porn Vs. pro-war speeches)

Do you think a world 100% free of censorship would be taking it too far?

Why?

Be honest.
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  #2  
Old 2007-05-24, 15:21
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Free speech is good, but obviously there has to be some sort of line with things that are illegal and immoral (i.e. child porn, torture, etc.). Whether that means censorship, or, for example, in the case of television, putting more violent or racy programming on at later times when children aren't watching or on tiered, pay-per channels, I can't say.

Obviously, however, child porn is wrong and should be condemned and stopped.

As far as speeches and such go, feel free to make an ass of yourself. Just know that I have a right to say what I want in response, so long as it isn't slander.
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  #3  
Old 2007-05-24, 16:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Do you think violence in computer games is good?
Yes. It's better to have it in games and on the street.
No violence at all is a pipe dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Do you think there's "bad" and "good" violence in games? (for example, slaying zombies is ok but running over school kids with your car is bad)
What about zombie school kids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Do you support censorship of some subjects, but not others? (for example, underage porn Vs. pro-war speeches)
I don't support any form of censorship.
Child porn is wrong only in the physical act of it, because it's simply abuse. An underage person can't defend itself properly (this includes defending itself legally because of the 'adult' age thingy). Virtual child porn doesn't abuse children (or anyone else). Images or movies of actual child porn is less bad, that the act, but because children were abuse to produce it, it should also be dealt with. (e.g. kill the demand and the production will stop).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Do you think a world 100% free of censorship would be taking it too far?
Yes, because retards with power that can't take any criticism will always exist.

Last edited by elmuerte; 2007-05-24 at 16:07.
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  #4  
Old 2007-05-24, 16:23
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Censorship should only exist to
a) Stop unsuitable material falling into minors hands. (this happens far too much at the moment, frankly, Age ratings on games just arnt paid attention too either by shops or parents).
b) Stop anything being made that would do harm to people in the creation process, or incite people to violence in others.
==

Now, its actualy true that humans do copy from what they see on tv, movies and games. Theres been plenty of tests that show this.
As much as Id like too say its nonsense, it isnt.

However, what most people critiseing games overlook is that in 99.99% of games you are not rewarded for killing inocent people. Even the most violent of games often penalise you for unnesscery killing.
So if people are learning by example, games arnt doing anything wrong. The carrot and stick very much goes towards positives.

If games did have a huge effect on us that would justfy censorship, then why isnt there more heroes in the world?
Almost all games portray a hero, fighting bravly against all odds to save a person, a group, or the world. Games, TV and Movies almost always show the good guy winning, showing that one person can make a difference and help those in need.
So...if we copy what we see...where are all the Heros?
(aside from Citizen Prime;
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...me0430-CR.html)

Censorship in most case's, put simply, is bullshit.
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  #5  
Old 2007-05-24, 17:26
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With censorship you don't just stop minors getting their hands on "unsuitable" material, you stop anyone from getting their hands on it.
Censorship only offers a false sense of protection. Child porn exists yet it is banned pretty much all over the world.

There also have been enough studies that say people are not badly influenced by games/movies/books/thoughts. The majority can handle it.
Usually people mimic movies because they are not in control of that person. But in games they actually trigger those actions.

Also... up to who is it to decide what is good or bad? Is it good to use a condom? I think it is, but the Pope doesn't agree. Because of religion and the ideas of the Pope a lot of people die. But, according to them, it's a good thing because God wanted that.
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  #6  
Old 2007-05-24, 17:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Muerte View Post
Because of religion and the ideas of the Pope a lot of people die. But, according to them, it's a good thing because God wanted that.
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  #7  
Old 2007-05-24, 18:20
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Absolutely no censorship in games, books and movies - when it comes to fabular/fiction stuff. When it comes to tv shows directed at the public, not presenting a fictous story - everything is ok, except blatant calling for violence and hatred -wich is against the law. Really don't try to moralize stuff, people are smart enough to choose for their own.

Anyway, with "inapproprioate" stuff, the kid will find it, if it interests him/her, no matter what you do, so it's best to let him with a proper commentary from the parents. "The forbidden fruit tastes best" - it's the same thing with "those" matters, the answer to the question "when is the best time to explain it to your child?" is "When he's asking about it" - and that's it.

Kids are equals to their parents, trying to treat them like they're inferrior is an insult to them and it will reflect on their personality in the future.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2007-05-24 at 18:32.
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  #8  
Old 2007-05-24, 18:22
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God killed more people then Satan in the bible
[/old]

Quote:
There also have been enough studies that say people are not badly influenced by games/movies/books/thoughts. The majority can handle it.
Depends what you mean by "handle".
While nothing takes away our freewill, we are influenced by many things, including games and tv.
I was supprised myself, but it really is the case that most studies do show a strong correlation between what we see and what we do.
"Monkey see, monkey do" really is true, to an extent.

The logic breaks down more when the argument goes that games encourage violence because of this.
According to the studies we copy things we see that benifits us. We dont merely form a "see a kill do a kill" association. We are fully able to see that copying something that leads to bad results is a bad idea. We learn from others mistakes just as much as our own.
And, in terms of computer games, that is like learning from anothers mistake.

Only a vanishingly small amount of games actively encourage random violence and is rewarded in game. In most games its penalised.

So, if we do copy actions on a base's as the studies indicate, then the effect is so subtle that the "heroes" in the population are a vanishingly small proportion, and thus people badly influenced must be even more smaller.
Quote:
With censorship you don't just stop minors getting their hands on "unsuitable" material, you stop anyone from getting their hands on it.
Well, censorship from certain groups.
Dosnt mater what you call it.

Quote:
Kids are equals to their parents, trying to treat them like they're inferrior is an insult to them and it will reflect on their personality in the future.
Equal (or greater) in inteligence and learning ability, but not knowledge.

Age restrictions should most certainly apply to games as well as film and tv.
If a parent wants to let their kid watch extremely violence or such, thats fine (sick, but fine) , but the kid shouldnt be able to go and by it himself, imo.

Heck, a lot of kids will just be buying that stuff too look cool, and probably wouldnt have wanted too see it after then have seen it....
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  #9  
Old 2007-05-24, 19:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Depends what you mean by "handle".
While nothing takes away our freewill, we are influenced by many things, including games and tv.
I was supprised myself, but it really is the case that most studies do show a strong correlation between what we see and what we do.
"Monkey see, monkey do" really is true, to an extent.
handle as in, being able to process it properly without breaking down.
Influences are always there, you are influenced by everything in your environment. If that wasn't the case you would be dead.
If I post a picture of a cure kitten you would be influenced by it, it can result in you taking a different decision.
The question is, if it's a good decision or not.

Here's an interesting moral brain teaser.
Woman in bikini: accepted
Woman in underwear: generally not accepted

Censorship works in the same fucked up way.
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  #10  
Old 2007-05-24, 20:52
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well let me put it this way : if u see a cinematic where school kids are murdered, that's ok ... could happen on TV too ... the bad part comes when u actually have the freedom and control to do it urself
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  #11  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:01
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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From all the people that posted in this thread so far, I agree the most with El.

I had a discussion today with somebody about censorship and brainwashing, I pretty much said what El said here.

And to add to this; EVEN if censoring certain things will save a few lives, it still isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong, I value a human life very much, but I still prefer to look on the long term.

You can compare it to an average American movie: A man saves his daughter from a great disaster, but lots of innocent people are killed as result. But to the audience it is still a good ending. Why? Because they're being emotional.

Some people are influenced by that sort of movies, and take that attitude along to real life. But the truth is that on real life, being rational has normally a lot better result than being emotional. So there will be some people that can't handle fiction, and will kill some people because a hero of them from some horror movie done so.
Is that enough of a reason to limit freedom to the entire population? No.
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  #12  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:05
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Some people need to learn the difference between reality and other things. I'm sure I've said this before but,

I have a virtual soldier on Battlefield 2142, and am very happy to fight for whatever side I'm on, shoot the enemy/blow up some enemys - doesn't mean I'd try and get a real gun, even for my personal defence for real. In 'real-life' I personally would not sign up to fight for land like that as I'm sure it could be rationed, and solved in a more peaceful way. That wouldn't make a fun game though, would it?

Sure, some things on TV and games influence people - but probably a VERY low percentage actually do REALLY terrible things.

Anyway, who makes a game where your task is to murder school kids?
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  #13  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan2552 View Post
Anyway, who makes a game where your task is to murder school kids?
Why not? I actually think this game could be fun, and I'm not afraid to say so.
Virtual worlds are the only place I can afford to experiment being evil. Experience, of any kind, is enriching.
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  #14  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:25
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When Alexfont completes his LBA2 story editor, LBA2 can be a game where you murder school kids !
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  #15  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:30
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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I'm starting to think I'll make a little game where you should murder school kids just to prove my point
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  #16  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:42
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u know , it made me realise something : if you are sane, then these violent games could actually satisfy your thirst for blood, violence and gore, thus resulting in a good thing ... the problem is when u are insane cause then violent games would only make u want more and more and once the game has reached its limits, u will start seeking more freedom in how to kill meaning reality
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  #17  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:54
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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If you are *that* insane, then computer games are the least of your problems.
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  #18  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:55
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Quote:
if you are sane, then these violent games could actually satisfy your
thirst for blood, violence and gore
I don't have much, if any real, thrist for blood, violance and gore. I play game for satisfaction - single player games I'm usually very happy to get to the end. Multiplayer games I only play teamwork based games, working as a team to complete a goal is fun. 2142 gives me satisfaction of working in a team, gaining in rank and gaining awards.

I wouldn't play an FPS where you spawn, kill some people, die, respawn, kill more people, die, respawn, kill more people - that's just boring and repetitive - who cares if you killed some people? I personally don't enjoy that.

About censoring, (another 2142 example :P) I'm glad theres no blood effects in battlefield, to be honest I don't think I'd enjoy the game as much -especially if somebody i knew was playing the game with me ('OMG my friends gut just spewed all over me').


I truely, honestly, say I wouldn't want to play a game (even if the gameplay was similar to 2142) if you had to shoot kids. Sure, I said theres a difference between games and real-life - but if a game symbolises too closely, I think there's something wrong there.

It's like comparing laserquest to a war.
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Old 2007-05-24, 22:58
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If you don't want to play such games - fair enough.
But my point is that you should know that if other people aren't like you on that, that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them - it just means they aren't like you.
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  #20  
Old 2007-05-24, 23:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
If you don't want to play such games - fair enough.
But my point is that you should know that if other people aren't like you on that, that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them - it just means they aren't like you.
maybe, but without the experience myself I can't easilly accept it.

(btw, like the thread, MBN has been a bit empty lately)
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  #21  
Old 2007-05-25, 15:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Why not? I actually think this game could be fun, and I'm not afraid to say so.
Virtual worlds are the only place I can afford to experiment being evil. Experience, of any kind, is enriching.
Unfortunately, it's already been done, and has been tied to one of the most horrific school shootings in US history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbi...chool_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_C...assacre_RPG%21

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  #22  
Old 2007-05-25, 15:48
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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That's insane people who can't tell reality from fiction. That is horrible and actually I rather not even read the details...

But, and I'm sorry if I seem like an ass, it still doesn't justify censorship.

Censorship is the easy way to deal with the problem. It's like cutting off the hands of someone who steals. It's just shortsighted and stupid.

Last edited by ChaosFish; 2007-05-25 at 15:55.
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  #23  
Old 2007-05-25, 16:00
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What the fuck? You simply mentioned a shooting game, and I posted a real life example. I didn't say anything about censorship.
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  #24  
Old 2007-05-25, 16:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
It's like cutting off the hands of someone who steals. It's just shortsighted and stupid.
Then again, it would stop them from stealing again...
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  #25  
Old 2007-05-25, 16:03
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
What the fuck? You simply mentioned a shooting game, and I posted a real life example. I didn't say anything about censorship.
OK.
I wasn't directing the post to you specifically. But I thought you meant that a shooting video game caused that massacre.
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